Living arrangements for the aged

The following program is produced by the University of Michigan broadcasting service under a grant of

aid from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the

National Association of educational broadcasters.

The challenge of aging. Today's program living arrangements

for the aged. A program from the series of human behavior

social and medical research produced by the University of Michigan

broadcasting service with special assistance from the National Health Council

and the National help forum. These programs have been developed from

interviews with men and women who have the too often unglamorous job of basic

research. Research in medicine. The physical sciences social

sciences and the behavioral sciences. OK Janelle you will hear what may

seem like strange or unfamiliar sob these are the sounds of the

participants office his laboratory or his clinic where the interviews were

first conducted. The people you will hear today are Mrs. Mary Cleverley

who was a special assistant in the office of the commissioner of the Federal Housing Administration.

Mr. NORMAN P. Mason who is the administrator of the United States housing and Home Finance

Agency Dr. George Beecham of Kissimmee Florida and Mr.

William C. fit age who is the executive director of the American Association of Retired

Persons. And my name is Glenn Philips. My first

question was addressed to Mr. Mason. What question would you like to

see answered about aging.

He answered What I would like to have this conference answer

for me is whether the responsibility for housing

our elderly citizens is solely that of the federal government or

does it belong to private individuals. Is it the responsibility of the

city the county the state or whose responsibility is it.

And Mrs cleverly you want to sound off on this.

I am hardly the one to speak I think because I'm close represent the federal

government as far as market insurance is concerned. But we

are. Working very hard to have the private investor take

their share of the responsibility and show government and private

persons can work together.

And I know Dacca reach him has got some ideas on this. He actually does look

after older citizens.

Well I of course the help of the federal government not

just in the matter of financing but also in the matter of

guidance and advice. Has been a great deal of

assistance to anybody who is seriously undertaking to provide housing

for retired people in orange gardens for example we've had a great deal of

help from.

The FHA in the land planning the various parts of the federal

government can be enormously helpful in bringing together information and raising

the standards of housing. They are also helpful in finding financing

guaranteeing the financing. But I think the primary job is that

of private housing to provide the housing for retired people

the same as it is their job to provide housing for American citizens generally

that you know you work for a lot of organizations that and you

have worked for government so you have to have better sides of this.

I feel like I'm playing both sides of the street at this point. Actually though I do think it is

important to emphasize the role of the individual or people doing for themselves I think that

this is a team arrangement. Frequently they do want to look to the government programs

your own program to assist in financing but realistically too

there are older people who have retired who can find housing

better housing than most people are talking about when they're talking about housing for the elderly.

So that I think that your point is a good one that it isn't.

It's all of us it seems to me and certainly I think we need to reemphasize the role of

the individual in his own responsibility for providing some of those for himself or for

themselves as a group.

One of my pet projects that we've done the market's insurance for in

FHA the Federal Housing Administration in Hartford Connecticut

called church homes incorporated and it allows for

independent living off healthy elderly people.

But I think we should define know for I call on an elderly person that we're talking about

is by statute 65 or a female at

62. In public housing they have two different ages

you know 65 for the male and 62 for the female.

No I don't use the term elderly housing at all. I like to use the term

retirement housing and that is definitely not based on 65 and

62 because retirement starts in this country today

for many people at the age of 38. These young men who are coming out of the army with their

20 years service are retiring just as surely and just as definitely

retiring to them means they're going to look around get a job they like.

And settle down in an area they like and then do something for

the rest their lives different from what they've done at 65 if they're healthy. For most people it

means exactly the same thing.

Retirement does not necessarily mean that we're going to sit down and rock in a

rocking chair and be elderly when our are away from housing now.

That's true. And yet on the other hand housing is necessary for

all ages and it should be good housing. And it is quite true

that the problem we've got is not going to be necessarily the

independent individual housing orange gardens or the

group housing of California. It needs to fit

differing needs of different people and adjust itself so that they can live in them

effectively and efficiently for the rest of their lives.

You know I think there is something that needs to be emphasized here and I think it's even part of a change of attitude we've often

thought of housing for the elderly or elderly housing or something that isn't necessarily good for the

community. And I think we have to re-examine that. Your housing project and

the one I'm speaking of actually. The community is grateful to have them the

contribution they make not only by payroll but in service and all the other kinds of

leadership. It seems to me this is something that's desirable.

Right that's the kind of housing that people want to have it all they don't want to break in here

because I spent the noon hour at this conference being educated

on just exactly what you're talking about and that is terminology. One of

the reasons that people don't like these things is because we call them

projects and this visions to them something strange. I

think I listened to that our banquet speaker of last night who is from Sweden as

you know and the great expert on elderly matters in Sweden and he says

in Sweden in our housing needs we're getting away from all

these terms that we have used to set apart the

elderly from the ordinary person and we're getting

to understand over there that we want to live on our housing

terms to be the same as they are for young folks. This is cleverly you

sat there and listened. Did you hear any of this.

I heard a great deal of it and I think I can think of specific

instances in this country where projects and I'm using that dirty word projects

have been refused in the community. They've been refused to have a

change in zoning permitted to have a very desirable set of

housing units because they were older people and they didn't want them to come into the

community. I think of one particularly vicious attack on a group that was done I

believe in California where when the zoning hearing took

place is the chief objection was they didn't want it in because

older people would smell.

It. If ever there were a need for community education I think this is a good

example of it because I think too many communities are living in the past in

terms of what they thought of as the old folks home rather than housing as no

no no this is a tract of housing that people of any age would enjoy. And for

them to be so restrictive in terms of zoning it means that they really don't understand what we're

talking about.

Well we're finding that we have actual proof now that a properly designed

housing for the elderly project is not undesirable.

It does not depreciate existing property values. It does not hurt the

value of single homes in the community. In fact it it if

it's properly designed and properly placed it enhanced is the value

because then here is a place for the older people to live near their children

and yet not have to be right under the same roof with them.

Now to be Chairman you and I were arguing a bit ago about this business.

That kind of people we put into a project together.

I'll be glad to do good. Try it again to convince you

because I feel very strongly that a good retirement community is made up

of people of all ages the proportions are greater of the older

people in a retirement community. But I think you need families with children.

You need people of all ages it should be a balanced community and not

just gray haired people getting greyer together.

Where our brave act of age and I don't like to drive into my house and

have to fight over a child and I suppose I resent these kids who

play baseball and do wrestling on my little square of front lawn.

I think maybe we have part of the compromise even though most of the people who live at Grey Gables

are within a certain range of rage that range but

within the setting there they have younger people who help serve the Neals

It's located right within an active community so that you have all ages all around and this

is not isolated and I think this is a major difference.

I know of one project that we've done the market's financing faught work project again

and well I am I can't change it I have it respectable.

It's in Audubon Iowa and where they have built a very delightful

facility. Instead of project you notice I'm using another word now

where they are incorporating an area in the

building where the community make meet.

In other words they have a separate big auditorium that's too big a word to use for it a

big meeting room with its own kitchen its own serving pantry and its own room

and other facilities and the community is encouraged the Chamber of Commerce the

Lions the CO wanna send others to come in and have their luncheon meetings their dinner meetings

all of them in there so that they are coming to this person's a

living area and bringing in the active life of the community.

Could I just ask one question yesterday you talk about living facilities with about Mrs.

Cleverley. Do you mean single units where the elderly

couple may live or do you mean a institutional type of living unit

institutional types a dirty word too. I am

referring of course to Dr.. Berger and experiences in

Sweden but he told me the other day that they have of course the units there were the single couple may

live as they have always lived and thereby maintain the dignity of a

family.

And this particular pride project I'm speaking about

is is one which is but we call non housekeeping. In other words

the if the family unit whether it's a one person or a two

person family has privacy they have their own bath and their own

living sleeping area. But they have their meals together

in a dining room. They do not have housekeeping units.

Frankly I do not call this institutional living. Other people don't always

agree with me.

Would this be the type of thing of the living. But the multi unit dwelling or

is it not.

It's a master unit dwelling set but it's a non housekeeping multi-unit dwelling.

I think this describes a little bit about your California set up there we call it a residence

because the home also can be misinterpreted. There we can have one or

two bedroom apartments most of them are not set up for housekeeping because there

are very attractive dining facilities and they have their own private yards

where they can dig around there have a landscape gardener but each has his own place if he has

a special brand of flowers that he'd like to grow. Swimming pool they can

enjoy and they really do ages. As you say this is a misunderstood

word too so that when we speak in terms. Of

so-called congregate living this can be very private. This has been designed with

that in mind.

Heart talk and this afternoon we got into what we were going to do with

this in this housing. Besides just live in it. In other words as we retire

we're not just going to vegetate. Somebody suggested growing flowers and I

just thought of Minnesota or even Washington D.C. today wouldn't be a very

good place to grow up.

Well that's the advantage of coming to Florida to do it just makes you do it

on your windows.

I might say other things in our pride and our and our collections of

houses however that that we do in these things that are a part of the housing isn't

that part of it to provide. Incentives to do writing

or or things of this sort I listened to Dr By

Bret talk about a place he's providing in over a

yellow knowing where each person is going to have a little shop of his

own which he can keep his tools in and lock up.

I've got the little shop in my home and one of these days I'm going to use it

when you retire.

I think we should give a little quote from Ernie bone the public housing man who

who unfortunately could not be with us but he's the young the young man

I would say in his 50s who is Mr. housing certainly in this country.

And he says a public housing agency be it federal or local has always

contended that its business was housing and housing only recreational

services and social services were the responsibility of the community. This

philosophy has worked out fairly well I'm quoting from any speech here and the

Housing Authority furnishes the space and the public a voluntary organization

staff furnishes the program. But he says now however we're operating in a

different field. We now take into the housing estates a large number of folks

over 65 years of age folks who have retired and whose problems are

eminent. And I think he means there are health problems maybe there is going to be some

change when they can no longer cook their meals and get around. He said We have always a

victim families whose incomes go over the ridiculously low maximum

limitations in vogue in most places. We know how to evict folks who through no

fault of their own become sick senile or helpless. Housing

people are not in the health business nor do they wish to get into it.

I don't think that word of Vick belongs in there if a person is gets in a state

where he can now carry care for himself properly in them. Then we

have facilities in our communities to take care of them.

Nurse I would like to the like. I'd like to distinguish between welfare and housing

as a private power zing. Man I cannot undertake to

provide welfare for the people who come and buy my houses. I do have a quite

different sort of responsibility.

I've got the responsibility for building the kind of house in which these people can

live on their own for as long a time as possible to make it easy

housekeeping to make it safe to make it convenient to give them something to

do yes so that they may live there comfortably for a longer period of time so that they won't

have to go to an institution that they can be on their own. It saves the public money it

saves them both money and living satisfaction.

Dr. Beecham is proving to me that there are many facets to this problem

that some of them. Far as he says it's his

responsibility and his responsibility alone as a private individual.

We do have as Mr Bohne poet points out some citizens that we do

that are a welfare proposition and I agree with Dr. Beecham it's time

we separated these two and understood how much of the elderly

are in one and how much in the other.

But you know when one of the things that concerns me too we keep talking about everything being brought

to it and the community coming in and doing this.

I think we forget that some of these people bring a whole lot right back to the community and I'm sure this is true and

just not all right to raise their point for example we gave to the citizens of Orange

Gardens a community house they funded. That building they provide the programs they

provide everything that goes into that building from week to week.

They take care of getting the classes up holding the dances it's their responsibility it's and

I think it is highly important that individuals run their own lives and as far as possible

at whatever age and that we should not have a benevolent

institution that Beecham isn't it true that and besides

we are people in the meaning in your in your gardens that you also

have the community participating in this to a little bit. Oh we're so remember

we're we live inside a city. We're part of that town and I think it's

highly important that retirement people be a part of an ongoing community and not be located

someplace out in the country away from everybody else.

This is part of the communities that's right all are not being separated or isolated they they belong there to

Harmony That's right well this is something I guess we all agree on Mrs. cleverly

that we all that we ought not to believe lay out in the country somewhere that that

when we have housing for my older citizens that it be somewhere near other

people.

Oh dear.

But I as you know I don't have to be included whatever.

I try to take you over spot and I'm not on a spot. I just want to say

that in my my work I cover all 50

states and Puerto Rico and I have seen

housing in all all of these areas and there is no

one answer. Some people would like to live in the top of the tree at 19 years of

age and let the basket down for their supplies and would be very happy.

But the other people who want to live right in a hotel room

and right on the corner of market in vine if that's the busiest

street in Los Angeles there is no one answer in

them.

And I think we must be careful we never regiment this thing

so much when I go to church on Sunday and some of us would rather watch the ballgame.

No I think this is awfully important that we don't think of this as one person these are all different

people.

There should be different kinds of housing to meet all the needs just as it would be for any age

right.

I'm thinking for example of one project which some people wouldn't like

but it's in it's in Los Angeles and it's particularly fascinating

to me because it's a group of Armenian. Background we were taking care

of their own people many of them who don't speak English and they bought Mary Pickford

old home not pick fare but the home she had before she married Doug Fairbanks

and they have added to it a very interesting. Housing

annex which we have insured and it is most successful.

And they're coming along there and meeting it one way. But you go to another part of the

country and here they will be in a 12 story building with all kinds

of facilities in it and we're insuring all kinds.

Isn't it interesting that a person like Mary Pickford is especially

interested in this problem of the aging. She's one member of the committee which is

arranging this great conference is going to take place in Washington in

January of 961 the White House conference.

I think you made a very interesting point Mr. Mason when we were in the meeting about a while ago that. We talk

about all of these projects around the country as though they need have been met.

I think you put it a different way.

Now this is for sure. We have just begun to find out what we're ought to

do and we don't have to rest on our laurels. We don't

even have to admit that a wonderful place like gray Gables or

orange gardens are the answer. These are the laboratories in which

we're finding out what the answers will be.

I wonder if one of you could talk for just a moment about special designs for them.

Well I suppose orange Gardens is particularly noted for that because

we have undertaken to put into the home the safety

features that will make it as safe as possible. They feature such

features as no steps at all inside or out of the house. A

floor is that or a nonskid non-slip doors that are all of them

full width 32 inches or wider. And

all the other features that we can think of to make it easy for example in the

bathroom where most accidents occur. We have nothing that will not support the

weight of an individual. We try to keep things up off the floor so that people don't have to stoop.

We try and keep them down from the ceiling so they don't have to climb up on chairs

and in general to make it as easy housekeeping as possible. Now that

is good design for any age the families with children come in there and thoroughly love

it. They are for example a climb on the. Bathroom fixtures the

kids use them for jungle gyms.

Let me say though Dr. Beecham that you have to be awfully careful though. You do

as a professional design these braces places properly. You

don't go around bragging to your customers to the elderly citizens right that you

design this especially for them. Not if you want them to be happy. That's right we

knew as you say this is housing for thats done for a purpose

but these people want to be treated like other people. Its good housing at any age.

I'd like to say something that if if a housing unit is properly designed

a person who might have to live in a wheelchair can be independent.

And it is possible it is done anyway. Yes it's already illegal in Omaha. I know the

Omaha Education Association the teachers there have a project that

that is a highrise housekeeping units and I know at least one of the

residents is there in or will you mean high rise.

That's a dirty word to that. That's a building that is two or more

stories and has an elevator.

Well I can give you an illustration Norman. My father came down to Orange gardens at

the age of 85. He had fallen and broken his hip and was consequently in a

wheelchair. He had been under nursing care until he came down there. It was

costing him money to have a private nurse and a stay in a special institution.

He came down there and bought a house got remarried lived in

a home of his own with his wife and took care of himself simply because he could get

that wheelchair through the bathroom door through the bedroom door out of doors when he wanted to

go. He was living an independent life and very happy about it.

At less money and in his own home two

cases where it's actually being done and yet so far as everybody is

concerned and so far as we say to the people this is just housing for people.

What about the financing of these homes for the elderly people who have reached the age of perhaps a

doctor V-chips father who cannot afford it. Is there a type of thing as an insurance or anything

in which they can apply for this is an awfully easy question to answer.

Money is one of the hardest things to get and money influences the housing this build in this

country there has to be easy financing banks have in some cases

been a little slow to invest their funds in these

projects because they want to be sure that they have a safe loan. So we have

a federal housing insurance program. This means that a local lender

makes a loan to an individual to buy a house and that individual though he is

of 65 or 70 years of age can buy this house with a

long term mortgage on it insured by F.A. Gerri. A long long

term low down payment and it's a good loan for the bank because it has this insurance.

By the same token they have it for a group of citizens

get together if a an institution like a church or a fraternal

group or the teacher or teachers yes get together they can have.

Borrowed funds which will over it permit them to

make it if they can borrow funds with this same type of insurance which permits the lender to

make a long term low downpayment loan and just to be sure that we get

this done. There is in the government a Federal National Mortgage Association which would

buy that mortgage that's been made past Fannie Mae.

The guy just gal the federal national mourning Association will buy that

loan so that the local institution doesn't have to worry about anybody here

you're so ready we have over 500 national retired teacher affiliates throughout

the country and we think they are really in the market now to come to you

to support some housing at the local level where they are sort of

well.

ALL know how I was one of the first three were teachers that we insured. And we now we have them

in Oregon and Ohio.

Isn't this exciting there are 500 of them. And this is what we're talking about local

people meeting a local problem with the federal government to help

just to stimulate this to make it possible for local people to

do the job but this answers my question that I asked at the start of this conference.

This is the feeling I had to when I was working in government sometimes you feel so remote from it

then all of a sudden you see that you're working hand in hand with the people who are out there in the states in the

communities.

While I have the experience at one time in my life and working with the government I know from that

experience how. Ready the government agencies are

to provide help and assistance and advice and counsel

if it's called for. And on the other hand how much can be done

without necessarily spending large amounts of government tax money. If

the government and the people get together and cooperate well you'll be interested to know of

course.

Maybe I should let Mrs cleverly say there's every FHA insured loan is

paid for by the people who borrow the money. This is not the taxpayers money.

Our thanks to Mrs. Mary Cleverley Mr. Norman P. Mason Dr.

George Beecham and Mr. William C. fit for their participation on this

program. Living arrangements for the aged. Next week you

will hear Dr. Steven M. Horvath. Who is head of the department of physiology

at the Lincoln R. Hospital in Philadelphia as he discusses

physiology and aging from the series human

behavior social and medical research. We extend our special

thanks to the National Health Council and the National Health Forum for

their assistance plan Philip speaking asking that you join us next week

and thanking you for being with us at this time.

This program has been produced by the University of Michigan broadcasting service under a grant in

aid from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National

Association of educational broadcasters. This is the NEA E.B.

Radio Network.