Living arrangements for the aged

The following program is produced by the University of Michigan broadcasting service under a grant of

aid from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the

National Association of educational broadcasters.

The challenge of aging. Today's program living arrangements

for the aged. A program from the series of human behavior

social and medical research produced by the University of Michigan

broadcasting service with special assistance from the National Health Council

and the National help forum. These programs have been developed from

interviews with men and women who have the too often unglamorous job of basic

research. Research in medicine. The physical sciences social

sciences and the behavioral sciences. OK Janelle you will hear what may

seem like strange or unfamiliar sob these are the sounds of the

participants office his laboratory or his clinic where the interviews were

first conducted. The people you will hear today are Mrs. Mary Cleverley

who was a special assistant in the office of the commissioner of the Federal Housing Administration.

Mr. NORMAN P. Mason who is the administrator of the United States housing and Home Finance

Agency Dr. George Beecham of Kissimmee Florida and Mr.

William C. fit age who is the executive director of the American Association of Retired

Persons. And my name is Glenn Philips. My first

question was addressed to Mr. Mason. What question would you like to

see answered about aging.

He answered What I would like to have this conference answer

for me is whether the responsibility for housing

our elderly citizens is solely that of the federal government or

does it belong to private individuals. Is it the responsibility of the

city the county the state or whose responsibility is it.

And Mrs cleverly you want to sound off on this.

I am hardly the one to speak I think because I'm close represent the federal

government as far as market insurance is concerned. But we

are. Working very hard to have the private investor take

their share of the responsibility and show government and private

persons can work together.

And I know Dacca reach him has got some ideas on this. He actually does look

after older citizens.

Well I of course the help of the federal government not

just in the matter of financing but also in the matter of

guidance and advice. Has been a great deal of

assistance to anybody who is seriously undertaking to provide housing

for retired people in orange gardens for example we've had a great deal of

help from.

The FHA in the land planning the various parts of the federal

government can be enormously helpful in bringing together information and raising

the standards of housing. They are also helpful in finding financing

guaranteeing the financing. But I think the primary job is that

of private housing to provide the housing for retired people

the same as it is their job to provide housing for American citizens generally

that you know you work for a lot of organizations that and you

have worked for government so you have to have better sides of this.

I feel like I'm playing both sides of the street at this point. Actually though I do think it is

important to emphasize the role of the individual or people doing for themselves I think that

this is a team arrangement. Frequently they do want to look to the government programs

your own program to assist in financing but realistically too

there are older people who have retired who can find housing

better housing than most people are talking about when they're talking about housing for the elderly.

So that I think that your point is a good one that it isn't.

It's all of us it seems to me and certainly I think we need to reemphasize the role of

the individual in his own responsibility for providing some of those for himself or for

themselves as a group.

One of my pet projects that we've done the market's insurance for in

FHA the Federal Housing Administration in Hartford Connecticut

called church homes incorporated and it allows for

independent living off healthy elderly people.

But I think we should define know for I call on an elderly person that we're talking about

is by statute 65 or a female at

62. In public housing they have two different ages

you know 65 for the male and 62 for the female.

No I don't use the term elderly housing at all. I like to use the term

retirement housing and that is definitely not based on 65 and

62 because retirement starts in this country today

for many people at the age of 38. These young men who are coming out of the army with their

20 years service are retiring just as surely and just as definitely

retiring to them means they're going to look around get a job they like.

And settle down in an area they like and then do something for

the rest their lives different from what they've done at 65 if they're healthy. For most people it

means exactly the same thing.

Retirement does not necessarily mean that we're going to sit down and rock in a

rocking chair and be elderly when our are away from housing now.

That's true. And yet on the other hand housing is necessary for

all ages and it should be good housing. And it is quite true

that the problem we've got is not going to be necessarily the

independent individual housing orange gardens or the

group housing of California. It needs to fit

differing needs of different people and adjust itself so that they can live in them

effectively and efficiently for the rest of their lives.

You know I think there is something that needs to be emphasized here and I think it's even part of a change of attitude we've often

thought of housing for the elderly or elderly housing or something that isn't necessarily good for the

community. And I think we have to re-examine that. Your housing project and

the one I'm speaking of actually. The community is grateful to have them the

contribution they make not only by payroll but in service and all the other kinds of

leadership. It seems to me this is something that's desirable.

Right that's the kind of housing that people want to have it all they don't want to break in here

because I spent the noon hour at this conference being educated

on just exactly what you're talking about and that is terminology. One of

the reasons that people don't like these things is because we call them

projects and this visions to them something strange. I

think I listened to that our banquet speaker of last night who is from Sweden as

you know and the great expert on elderly matters in Sweden and he says

in Sweden in our housing needs we're getting away from all

these terms that we have used to set apart the

elderly from the ordinary person and we're getting

to understand over there that we want to live on our housing

terms to be the same as they are for young folks. This is cleverly you

sat there and listened. Did you hear any of this.

I heard a great deal of it and I think I can think of specific

instances in this country where projects and I'm using that dirty word projects

have been refused in the community. They've been refused to have a

change in zoning permitted to have a very desirable set of

housing units because they were older people and they didn't want them to come into the

community. I think of one particularly vicious attack on a group that was done I

believe in California where when the zoning hearing took

place is the chief objection was they didn't want it in because

older people would smell.

It. If ever there were a need for community education I think this is a good

example of it because I think too many communities are living in the past in

terms of what they thought of as the old folks home rather than housing as no

no no this is a tract of housing that people of any age would enjoy. And for

them to be so restrictive in terms of zoning it means that they really don't understand what we're

talking about.

Well we're finding that we have actual proof now that a properly designed

housing for the elderly project is not undesirable.

It does not depreciate existing property values. It does not hurt the

value of single homes in the community. In fact it it if

it's properly designed and properly placed it enhanced is the value

because then here is a place for the older people to live near their children

and yet not have to be right under the same roof with them.

Now to be Chairman you and I were arguing a bit ago about this business.

That kind of people we put into a project together.

I'll be glad to do good. Try it again to convince you

because I feel very strongly that a good retirement community is made up

of people of all ages the proportions are greater of the older

people in a retirement community. But I think you need families with children.

You need people of all ages it should be a balanced community and not

just gray haired people getting greyer together.

Where our brave act of age and I don't like to drive into my house and

have to fight over a child and I suppose I resent these kids who

play baseball and do wrestling on my little square of front lawn.

I think maybe we have part of the compromise even though most of the people who live at Grey Gables

are within a certain range of rage that range but

within the setting there they have younger people who help serve the Neals

It's located right within an active community so that you have all ages all around and this

is not isolated and I think this is a major difference.

I know of one project that we've done the market's financing faught work project again

and well I am I can't change it I have it respectable.

It's in Audubon Iowa and where they have built a very delightful

facility. Instead of project you notice I'm using another word now

where they are incorporating an area in the

building where the community make meet.

In other words they have a separate big auditorium that's too big a word to use for it a

big meeting room with its own kitchen its own serving pantry and its own room

and other facilities and the community is encouraged the Chamber of Commerce the

Lions the CO wanna send others to come in and have their luncheon meetings their dinner meetings

all of them in there so that they are coming to this person's a

living area and bringing in the active life of the community.

Could I just ask one question yesterday you talk about living facilities with about Mrs.

Cleverley. Do you mean single units where the elderly

couple may live or do you mean a institutional type of living unit

institutional types a dirty word too. I am

referring of course to Dr.. Berger and experiences in

Sweden but he told me the other day that they have of course the units there were the single couple may

live as they have always lived and thereby maintain the dignity of a

family.

And this particular pride project I'm speaking about

is is one which is but we call non housekeeping. In other words

the if the family unit whether it's a one person or a two

person family has privacy they have their own bath and their own

living sleeping area. But they have their meals together

in a dining room. They do not have housekeeping units.

Frankly I do not call this institutional living. Other people don't always

agree with me.

Would this be the type of thing of the living. But the multi unit dwelling or

is it not.

It's a master unit dwelling set but it's a non housekeeping multi-unit dwelling.