Willy Kressman and Senator Bach

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The voices of Europe Milton Mayer American author and lecturer broadcaster
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and professor in the Institute of Social Research from Frankfurt University has been recording the
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voices of Europeans who are alive and sensitive to the conditions that surround them.
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Here is Milton Mayer in the terribly bombed
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section of Berlin known as Crites Berry.
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One sees blocks and blocks. It's a
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temptation to say Miles and miles of broken
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walls mortar plaster glass rubble of
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every kind one sees seven
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years after the war are piles and piles of
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neatly stacked bricks to be used again for building
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behind one of these piles of bricks a
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pile on mortared but used never to last as a coal
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shed. It stands the townhall of the
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Crites barracks section of Berlin.
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Here in the Town Hall of Crites bared in the
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chair of the Burgermeister Our mayor of barely
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in crowd spared sits a man named Delhi
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crest mine. Billy Cressman was born
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in Berlin in 1970 the son of a tool maker
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in 1922. He joined the youth organization of the
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Social Democratic party in Berlin and became a
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trade unionist. A printer by trade. In
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September 1933 he left
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Berlin and Germany. And then
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illegally he was in Czechoslovakia
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Austria Switzerland France Spain Italy Holland Belgium and
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Denmark. We're looking at everything from furniture mover
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to tutor of backward children and working all the time
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against Nazi ism and fascism. He was finally as a
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refugee sent to Czechoslovakia just
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before Hitler came and then he went to Poland
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just before the war and then to Sweden to
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Norway finally to England where he began work as a demolition
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worker during the war. And in 1946 was a factory
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manager. But in 1947 Billie Cressman came home to
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Berlin not as a public official
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not even with a job just a man coming home. He
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became head of the Berlin economics division at the
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time when the four sectors of the city were still united under the
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occupation powers and in 1949 he
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became Burgermeister of barely in Croyde spared
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Herr Burgomeister.
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What is the way out of all this for Germany.
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May I put it in another way. What is not the way out of it.
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What we are troubled about is that we talk about false about
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arms about the code or the hot war
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but a way out of eat must be for Germany and even
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for our spareness. Then you'd better if we talk
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about a new spirit. I mean that we think
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about three party systems we have in Germany
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and the Weimar Republic. If we thought that we can
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fight for the human kind with the
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two parties that's one of our trouble. And when I talk about
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a new spirit I mean that it is necessary that we
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own free to be as a human being
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as an individual individualist. S
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Man to man woman to woman just
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to be outside of the pressure of thinking
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of a party line. The other other trouble with out
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is that we haven't been educated
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or democratic people. But I my theory that we even
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didn't know what it means to be a good
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Democrat or to think as a Democrat.
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What I want to talk about it is that the
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democracy that we in our history
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just started 918 to be a country
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between Europe States and that we haven't had
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time enough to be good democrats.
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Their way of nationalism in Germany after 33
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has taught us a lesson that we have to get over
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just to thing as a German to try to
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get a European way of thinking
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and teach the people that over our border other
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people are living and that we think that a
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united Europe and with an an united Europe
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not only America. I think of all the other
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countries that we have to get together.
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Europe and the United States have to
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become a partnership.
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We have to learn that
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not only US European or US
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American. I think it's good to be on
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our own way. I'm not talking about read music.
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It's not good only to talk about economic aid
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or military help. Of course all of that is necessary
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but the picture Germany and Europe has received
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from the American after the war was not a beautiful
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one.
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Herr Burgomeister us spoken here.
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Quite freely about what is wrong with Germany
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and the Germans. Your own country and your own countrymen. I
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want to ask you what is wrong with
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America and the Americans. What in one word is the
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way out for America too.
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I hope you are not misunderstand me. May I say that as a friend of
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America and just ask a European that you
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Americans have won the war but lost the peace.
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And how Herr Burgomeister in Europe view Have we lost the
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peace.
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It's very difficult to answer. But if I
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remember and I think from my point of view
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and from my past I have the right
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to speak openly.
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You see years ago you hated John many years
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ago. You would even did know where the cities
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of Europe you were just far away. You are a very
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big country. Where is all the beauty with all of the Reds.
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But you never.
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Taking the time even your scoots to teach the
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children just over the border are very big
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country to see as a European state. What would have
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become of the art if you would have seen your own
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arrows even 940. How could it
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be in another state of affairs as we see it today. You see
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that if we talk about what's a way out for your
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country then I only can say that
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if you ask the German people today to re arm me again
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let me see that a Democratic man that I
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just can't understand. There must be another way out of it
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to prepare another war. I know you see even as a politician
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that the time could come that we have to deal with this in another
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way. But before we do that it is nested necessary
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to get a game around the table and talk and talk again.
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Even if we lose some time but we gain
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and we win the confidence of the people.
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I know that if we talk about the way out of it
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I mean that the democratic countries of Europe and
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the United States should go into partnership. I mean
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really a partnership that you just can't take Europe
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only from the business point of view. You have to think that if there's a fair
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dealing between countries then I must say that
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the economic system of your country or any other
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this this kind of partnership only from the economic
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point of view must lead to another myth understanding. What we
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try in Europe at present to get the countries together and
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have an economic system for Europe. You see even here they
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are we are in trouble again because Germany and France and Netherlands
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and and Italy and auction block and so on. They are in it
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but to big countries as Great Britain they are standing
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outside. Do you just stay now on the
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part. If I may put it that way then the trouble
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we had in Europe and even Germany in every country
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there is the same danger.
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Herr Burgomeister if you had two or
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three suggestions to make to us all
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specific suggestions.
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For a way out what would that be.
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If I may put it where its temper gets the common people together
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it was the one that would be one. So I guess you see if the big
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politicians come from America to Europe or from
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Europe to America I always have the feeling they're meeting some
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representatives. But hey
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sometimes as I see it if they don't get together with the
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people they are just the so called leadership
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and I tell you quite frankly if I were here they were our leader in
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drum corps. We were there. I'm just afraid of
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what could happen again. It is necessary
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that the leading politicians.
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Just get free in their own government
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to be then the representatives of your part of their parties
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that they have to learn that the
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human meant kind of only can be saved if
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you se American tried to understand
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that our tribe are in Europe. I have to put it
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Far East or South Africa or trader
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and so on that we can't think any more as
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nationalists just as a human race who has to try
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to find a way out in this twentieth century.
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Thank you I have a brother my sister the Minister for Social
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Affairs of the state and city of Berlin is Senator Autobahn
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Senator Baucus was a trade unionist and an official of the International Labor Office of the League of
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Nations. He left Germany in 1933 returning in
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1940 from Switzerland to engage in underground work against the Nazi regime
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which he continued when he went to France and then returned to Germany in 1905.
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Here is Milton Mayer to interview Senator Autobots.
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Senator Boxer one question I want to ask you
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most.
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After a few days visit here in Berlin
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is whether or not I am right when I say that Berlin seems to me
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to be a kind of monster something
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which isn't real and which can't go on
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forever.
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Am I right or wrong about that.
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Well it's rather difficult to on that this question with yes
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or no.
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We fought.
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Our situations in nineteen hundred and forty five
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and seven years after the end of the War
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Berlin there's a divided city and best from Berlin.
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Whether it's to point to millions of inhabitants is an island of
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freedom and democracy behind the Iron Curtain.
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And you may understand that this means a very very
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difficult situation.
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We started a political
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organisation in 1945 together with the
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four powers of occupation.
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And you know that in the course of
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these years there was a permanent and
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increasing disagreement between the occupying
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forces and especially between divest on
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Ally and the Soviets.
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And this was one. It's one of the reasons why we are in
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a very difficult situation in Bahrain.
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The other reason is the fact that BERLIJN has
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been.
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Occupied first by the Soviets and building an
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industrial has been nearly completely dismantled
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at least at 80 percent compared to the
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territory of the Republic of the boon it means much more
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than this territory where the dismantling might reach the figure of
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25 percent.
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To what extent has there been industrial recovery what is your
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production figure now.
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Well it compared to nineteen hundred
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forty five restart up from 8 percent. But that option compared to nineteen
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hundred thirty six. And we have the age now the
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capacity of 50 persons of nineteen hundred thirty six.
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This is a very big shock Szish but
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compared with the economy of the economy off
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the territory of the blunt. We are behind
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considerably behind the western Germany. There's the same
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figure investment Germany is about 100 and 40 per
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cent of production compared to the production of nineteen
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hundred and thirty six.
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And Senator by how much unemployment actually unemployment is there
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in Berlin you have at present 300000
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nearly 300000 unemployed out of 2 million 200000 people
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living here. Yes. And how are your two million two hundred
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thousand people living.
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Well perhaps I can give you some interesting
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and even striking figures. From the two
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million from two point two million inhabitants of
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Western Berlin nearly one million is
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living partly or completely
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permanently off for a time on social
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insurance pensions or public assistance.
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And we have a burden of nearly 1 million of monarchs
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to expend for these proposals.
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I can tell you though that we have decided to 300000 unemployed.
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We have two hundred and ninety thousand involve victims with their family and
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we have one hundred and fifty thousand extra
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police. These are people coming driven
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out from the former German territories now
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under Soviet or Polish administration
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not to administration. This means
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people not coming from the Soviet occupied zone rep from the part of
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Germany east of there or don't write a line and we have
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about 90 thousand people living
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on public assistance.
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And a plant of the 150000 ex police
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we got since the division of the shoe deal Berlin. About
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nearly 300000. But if you jis from the Soviet
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occupied stone from the Soviet sector of Berlin.
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Senator Boxer what is the living standard of the
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half of the population of West fertile land which is
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maintaining itself either on social insurance pensions or on
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public assistance.
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Well I may say in spite of the
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fact that we do all we can compare
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to American measures.
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This part of the population is on a starving standout in any
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case the living standard is beyond the
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existence minimum.
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Well now all in all Senator it sounds to me as if my
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suspicion is confirmed by your statistics
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namely that Berlin is at least economically a monstrosity which
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cannot be maintained indefinitely in its present condition.
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I don't think so because you know we get for the moment
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of help from the Republic off the boom by the so called
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Nord opera about the five hundred and fifty billions
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all but true to the proposals and we have got a very
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very valuable help by the Marshall Plan aid the have got
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nearly 1 million of monarchs for investment and the fact
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that we have increased our production from a person to 50
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person shows that this increase has been
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a real increase and a real economic improvement and we
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are quite sure that we can continue to improve our economic
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situation.
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Well let's look at this so-called no talk for a moment Senator Boxer
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because I'm not sure that very many Americans know about it.
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I do having been in Germany for a bit. Every letter
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which is sent from any place in West Germany except
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Berlin itself carries a
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two pfennig stamp for the relief or the assistance
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of Berlin and this to find a stamp attached to
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every letter sent anywhere in West Germany
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brings in. How many marks a year.
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Well it brings in about 600 millions of monks. That's
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about it.
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That's about 150 million dollars a year. Now this support of
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the city of Berlin is coming from the rest of West Germany
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where economic conditions are not all at they
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might be and constitutes if not a drain
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on the rest of the people of West Germany certainly a sort of nuisance to a
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lot of them.
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Berlin let me ask you a question on this point Senator
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Byrd Lindh has never been popular among the Germans has it.
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Yes and no burden.
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Especially in the time of the Kaiser II
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the Capitol not only of Germany but also of Prussia but
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BERLIJN Was it
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has to become now a kind of
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symbol for the fight of
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freedom and democracy and I think it is
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spiritually wrote and I hope also in America
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the Berlin position is quite different from that what Berlin has
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been during the height of eye or during the time of Hitler.
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And there is no doubt that all jewel in this dome Germany in Berlin has not
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been very popular and if people
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have to pay that's already a nice and bought
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the the understanding for Berlin this growing this better
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invest in Germany because they know
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people know now that without the petition and the
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maintaining of the position of Berlin the German unity will be
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impossible.
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Senator Barr one last question. How in your own
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personal view did the in power of
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both the situation of Berlin come about. What were the mistakes that were
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made and by whom and what is the real solution.
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Well. I must say
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very frankly that if we
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hadn't had Hitler in Germany Berlin never
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would have come in the position that we must confess.
[25:38 - 25:43]
But there is no doubt that later on also by their allies there have
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been very big mistakes and I think these mistakes started all
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that in that our blood in Tehran
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and Europe and later on in Potsdam.
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But really got nice depth at the beginning of the evil there was Hitler and Soviet happen
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to me and their reproaches to those people who had
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to deal with the consequences of this situation but on the other hand there is no
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doubt that an allied
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administration of Berlin and of Germany
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did quite a lot of mistakes especially when
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we consider the situation of today with the situation of
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945. I may tell you an example of the German you
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the German you is very very critical. And when they
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became it UK did by the Allies they accepted
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that for example young Germans.
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Never were two were again.
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And they are very they're
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rather surprised to see after a few will yield their
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good to take the arms again and
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they are very critical because they kind of and of then that principle
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can change so quickly.
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On the other hand I think that perhaps
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that your partners are saying the situation is not quite
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understood in the United States. The United States.
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General generally the problem a capitalistic country. But I
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feel and we feel that this capitalism
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is quite different from the capitalism we have still in
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Germany and in the whole of Europe especially one of the on the continent.
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This means a very old fashioned capitalism of 19th
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century and sometimes
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American administrators don't understand and see the
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difference between their own Proctors of capitalism and
[28:13 - 28:19]
our old fashioned capitalism of the 19th century. And
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the burning situation might give you an example may give you an example.
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What we have to do it might it be. It is
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certainly a marvel that a city like BERLIJN with
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the social situation I explain to you is so strongly
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resisting the communist. And there is no doubt that
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the government must understand
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that freedom in Germany and this patiently in Berlin can
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only maintain if there is real social justice
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on the base on the basis of this liberty.
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Thank you. Thank you very much Senator Boxer.
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The program you have just heard has been made possible under a grant from the fund for adult education
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an independent organization established by the Ford Foundation. These programs are
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prepared and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. In the interests of
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better international understanding this program was introduced by Norman McKee and this
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is the end E.B. tape network.