Willy Kressman and Senator Bach

The voices of Europe Milton Mayer American author and lecturer broadcaster

and professor in the Institute of Social Research from Frankfurt University has been recording the

voices of Europeans who are alive and sensitive to the conditions that surround them.

Here is Milton Mayer in the terribly bombed

section of Berlin known as Crites Berry.

One sees blocks and blocks. It's a

temptation to say Miles and miles of broken

walls mortar plaster glass rubble of

every kind one sees seven

years after the war are piles and piles of

neatly stacked bricks to be used again for building

behind one of these piles of bricks a

pile on mortared but used never to last as a coal

shed. It stands the townhall of the

Crites barracks section of Berlin.

Here in the Town Hall of Crites bared in the

chair of the Burgermeister Our mayor of barely

in crowd spared sits a man named Delhi

crest mine. Billy Cressman was born

in Berlin in 1970 the son of a tool maker

in 1922. He joined the youth organization of the

Social Democratic party in Berlin and became a

trade unionist. A printer by trade. In

September 1933 he left

Berlin and Germany. And then

illegally he was in Czechoslovakia

Austria Switzerland France Spain Italy Holland Belgium and

Denmark. We're looking at everything from furniture mover

to tutor of backward children and working all the time

against Nazi ism and fascism. He was finally as a

refugee sent to Czechoslovakia just

before Hitler came and then he went to Poland

just before the war and then to Sweden to

Norway finally to England where he began work as a demolition

worker during the war. And in 1946 was a factory

manager. But in 1947 Billie Cressman came home to

Berlin not as a public official

not even with a job just a man coming home. He

became head of the Berlin economics division at the

time when the four sectors of the city were still united under the

occupation powers and in 1949 he

became Burgermeister of barely in Croyde spared

Herr Burgomeister.

What is the way out of all this for Germany.

May I put it in another way. What is not the way out of it.

What we are troubled about is that we talk about false about

arms about the code or the hot war

but a way out of eat must be for Germany and even

for our spareness. Then you'd better if we talk

about a new spirit. I mean that we think

about three party systems we have in Germany

and the Weimar Republic. If we thought that we can

fight for the human kind with the

two parties that's one of our trouble. And when I talk about

a new spirit I mean that it is necessary that we

own free to be as a human being

as an individual individualist. S

Man to man woman to woman just

to be outside of the pressure of thinking

of a party line. The other other trouble with out

is that we haven't been educated

or democratic people. But I my theory that we even

didn't know what it means to be a good

Democrat or to think as a Democrat.

What I want to talk about it is that the

democracy that we in our history

just started 918 to be a country

between Europe States and that we haven't had

time enough to be good democrats.

Their way of nationalism in Germany after 33

has taught us a lesson that we have to get over

just to thing as a German to try to

get a European way of thinking

and teach the people that over our border other

people are living and that we think that a

united Europe and with an an united Europe

not only America. I think of all the other

countries that we have to get together.

Europe and the United States have to

become a partnership.

We have to learn that

not only US European or US

American. I think it's good to be on

our own way. I'm not talking about read music.

It's not good only to talk about economic aid

or military help. Of course all of that is necessary

but the picture Germany and Europe has received

from the American after the war was not a beautiful

one.

Herr Burgomeister us spoken here.

Quite freely about what is wrong with Germany

and the Germans. Your own country and your own countrymen. I

want to ask you what is wrong with

America and the Americans. What in one word is the

way out for America too.

I hope you are not misunderstand me. May I say that as a friend of

America and just ask a European that you

Americans have won the war but lost the peace.

And how Herr Burgomeister in Europe view Have we lost the

peace.

It's very difficult to answer. But if I

remember and I think from my point of view

and from my past I have the right

to speak openly.

You see years ago you hated John many years

ago. You would even did know where the cities

of Europe you were just far away. You are a very

big country. Where is all the beauty with all of the Reds.

But you never.

Taking the time even your scoots to teach the

children just over the border are very big

country to see as a European state. What would have

become of the art if you would have seen your own

arrows even 940. How could it

be in another state of affairs as we see it today. You see

that if we talk about what's a way out for your

country then I only can say that

if you ask the German people today to re arm me again

let me see that a Democratic man that I

just can't understand. There must be another way out of it

to prepare another war. I know you see even as a politician

that the time could come that we have to deal with this in another

way. But before we do that it is nested necessary

to get a game around the table and talk and talk again.

Even if we lose some time but we gain

and we win the confidence of the people.

I know that if we talk about the way out of it

I mean that the democratic countries of Europe and

the United States should go into partnership. I mean

really a partnership that you just can't take Europe

only from the business point of view. You have to think that if there's a fair

dealing between countries then I must say that

the economic system of your country or any other

this this kind of partnership only from the economic

point of view must lead to another myth understanding. What we

try in Europe at present to get the countries together and

have an economic system for Europe. You see even here they

are we are in trouble again because Germany and France and Netherlands

and and Italy and auction block and so on. They are in it

but to big countries as Great Britain they are standing

outside. Do you just stay now on the

part. If I may put it that way then the trouble

we had in Europe and even Germany in every country

there is the same danger.

Herr Burgomeister if you had two or

three suggestions to make to us all

specific suggestions.

For a way out what would that be.

If I may put it where its temper gets the common people together

it was the one that would be one. So I guess you see if the big

politicians come from America to Europe or from

Europe to America I always have the feeling they're meeting some

representatives. But hey

sometimes as I see it if they don't get together with the

people they are just the so called leadership

and I tell you quite frankly if I were here they were our leader in

drum corps. We were there. I'm just afraid of

what could happen again. It is necessary

that the leading politicians.

Just get free in their own government

to be then the representatives of your part of their parties

that they have to learn that the

human meant kind of only can be saved if

you se American tried to understand

that our tribe are in Europe. I have to put it

Far East or South Africa or trader

and so on that we can't think any more as

nationalists just as a human race who has to try

to find a way out in this twentieth century.

Thank you I have a brother my sister the Minister for Social

Affairs of the state and city of Berlin is Senator Autobahn

Senator Baucus was a trade unionist and an official of the International Labor Office of the League of

Nations. He left Germany in 1933 returning in

1940 from Switzerland to engage in underground work against the Nazi regime

which he continued when he went to France and then returned to Germany in 1905.

Here is Milton Mayer to interview Senator Autobots.

Senator Boxer one question I want to ask you

most.

After a few days visit here in Berlin

is whether or not I am right when I say that Berlin seems to me

to be a kind of monster something

which isn't real and which can't go on

forever.

Am I right or wrong about that.

Well it's rather difficult to on that this question with yes

or no.

We fought.

Our situations in nineteen hundred and forty five

and seven years after the end of the War

Berlin there's a divided city and best from Berlin.

Whether it's to point to millions of inhabitants is an island of

freedom and democracy behind the Iron Curtain.

And you may understand that this means a very very

difficult situation.

We started a political

organisation in 1945 together with the

four powers of occupation.

And you know that in the course of

these years there was a permanent and

increasing disagreement between the occupying

forces and especially between divest on

Ally and the Soviets.

And this was one. It's one of the reasons why we are in

a very difficult situation in Bahrain.

The other reason is the fact that BERLIJN has

been.

Occupied first by the Soviets and building an

industrial has been nearly completely dismantled

at least at 80 percent compared to the

territory of the Republic of the boon it means much more

than this territory where the dismantling might reach the figure of

25 percent.

To what extent has there been industrial recovery what is your

production figure now.

Well it compared to nineteen hundred

forty five restart up from 8 percent. But that option compared to nineteen

hundred thirty six. And we have the age now the

capacity of 50 persons of nineteen hundred thirty six.

This is a very big shock Szish but

compared with the economy of the economy off

the territory of the blunt. We are behind

considerably behind the western Germany. There's the same

figure investment Germany is about 100 and 40 per

cent of production compared to the production of nineteen

hundred and thirty six.

And Senator by how much unemployment actually unemployment is there

in Berlin you have at present 300000

nearly 300000 unemployed out of 2 million 200000 people

living here. Yes. And how are your two million two hundred

thousand people living.

Well perhaps I can give you some interesting

and even striking figures. From the two

million from two point two million inhabitants of

Western Berlin nearly one million is

living partly or completely

permanently off for a time on social

insurance pensions or public assistance.

And we have a burden of nearly 1 million of monarchs

to expend for these proposals.

I can tell you though that we have decided to 300000 unemployed.

We have two hundred and ninety thousand involve victims with their family and

we have one hundred and fifty thousand extra

police. These are people coming driven

out from the former German territories now

under Soviet or Polish administration

not to administration. This means

people not coming from the Soviet occupied zone rep from the part of

Germany east of there or don't write a line and we have

about 90 thousand people living

on public assistance.

And a plant of the 150000 ex police

we got since the division of the shoe deal Berlin. About

nearly 300000. But if you jis from the Soviet

occupied stone from the Soviet sector of Berlin.

Senator Boxer what is the living standard of the

half of the population of West fertile land which is

maintaining itself either on social insurance pensions or on

public assistance.

Well I may say in spite of the

fact that we do all we can compare

to American measures.

This part of the population is on a starving standout in any

case the living standard is beyond the

existence minimum.

Well now all in all Senator it sounds to me as if my

suspicion is confirmed by your statistics

namely that Berlin is at least economically a monstrosity which

cannot be maintained indefinitely in its present condition.

I don't think so because you know we get for the moment

of help from the Republic off the boom by the so called

Nord opera about the five hundred and fifty billions

all but true to the proposals and we have got a very

very valuable help by the Marshall Plan aid the have got

nearly 1 million of monarchs for investment and the fact

that we have increased our production from a person to 50

person shows that this increase has been

a real increase and a real economic improvement and we

are quite sure that we can continue to improve our economic

situation.

Well let's look at this so-called no talk for a moment Senator Boxer

because I'm not sure that very many Americans know about it.

I do having been in Germany for a bit. Every letter

which is sent from any place in West Germany except

Berlin itself carries a

two pfennig stamp for the relief or the assistance

of Berlin and this to find a stamp attached to

every letter sent anywhere in West Germany

brings in. How many marks a year.

Well it brings in about 600 millions of monks. That's

about it.

That's about 150 million dollars a year. Now this support of

the city of Berlin is coming from the rest of West Germany

where economic conditions are not all at they

might be and constitutes if not a drain

on the rest of the people of West Germany certainly a sort of nuisance to a

lot of them.

Berlin let me ask you a question on this point Senator

Byrd Lindh has never been popular among the Germans has it.

Yes and no burden.

Especially in the time of the Kaiser II

the Capitol not only of Germany but also of Prussia but

BERLIJN Was it

has to become now a kind of

symbol for the fight of

freedom and democracy and I think it is

spiritually wrote and I hope also in America

the Berlin position is quite different from that what Berlin has

been during the height of eye or during the time of Hitler.

And there is no doubt that all jewel in this dome Germany in Berlin has not

been very popular and if people

have to pay that's already a nice and bought

the the understanding for Berlin this growing this better

invest in Germany because they know

people know now that without the petition and the

maintaining of the position of Berlin the German unity will be

impossible.

Senator Barr one last question. How in your own

personal view did the in power of

both the situation of Berlin come about. What were the mistakes that were

made and by whom and what is the real solution.

Well. I must say

very frankly that if we

hadn't had Hitler in Germany Berlin never

would have come in the position that we must confess.

But there is no doubt that later on also by their allies there have

been very big mistakes and I think these mistakes started all

that in that our blood in Tehran

and Europe and later on in Potsdam.

But really got nice depth at the beginning of the evil there was Hitler and Soviet happen

to me and their reproaches to those people who had

to deal with the consequences of this situation but on the other hand there is no

doubt that an allied

administration of Berlin and of Germany

did quite a lot of mistakes especially when

we consider the situation of today with the situation of

945. I may tell you an example of the German you

the German you is very very critical. And when they

became it UK did by the Allies they accepted

that for example young Germans.

Never were two were again.

And they are very they're

rather surprised to see after a few will yield their

good to take the arms again and

they are very critical because they kind of and of then that principle

can change so quickly.

On the other hand I think that perhaps

that your partners are saying the situation is not quite

understood in the United States. The United States.

General generally the problem a capitalistic country. But I

feel and we feel that this capitalism

is quite different from the capitalism we have still in

Germany and in the whole of Europe especially one of the on the continent.

This means a very old fashioned capitalism of 19th

century and sometimes

American administrators don't understand and see the

difference between their own Proctors of capitalism and

our old fashioned capitalism of the 19th century. And

the burning situation might give you an example may give you an example.

What we have to do it might it be. It is

certainly a marvel that a city like BERLIJN with

the social situation I explain to you is so strongly

resisting the communist. And there is no doubt that

the government must understand

that freedom in Germany and this patiently in Berlin can

only maintain if there is real social justice

on the base on the basis of this liberty.

Thank you. Thank you very much Senator Boxer.

The program you have just heard has been made possible under a grant from the fund for adult education

an independent organization established by the Ford Foundation. These programs are

prepared and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. In the interests of

better international understanding this program was introduced by Norman McKee and this

is the end E.B. tape network.