The writer as creator

Created

the Lowell Institute cooperative broadcasting Council resents Robert Penn

Warren the writer as Creator as a number 8.

And I see no association of educational broadcasters series The creative mind

produced by WGBH FM in Boston under a grant from the Educational

Television and Radio Center.

These conversations explore the creative process as it pertains to the American artist

and scientist in the 20th century. And here is our host and commentator for

the creative mind. Lyman Bryson.

Robert Penn Warren is a poet and a novelist and a playwright and as you will soon

discover a talker. He has very vigorous opinions about some of the most

debated questions in the whole field of aesthetics and the whole consideration of the

creative mind his own creative mind is at work not only on objects of art the

things that he does his plays and his poems and his novels but also

upon the problems of the artist and the thinker. And he has doubts about whether or

not any theory helps an artist very much. He doesn't think that you

can decide how you build a novel for instance

as an architect decides how to build a building and then you go out and get the

material and fit it into your theory that just doesn't work. The

artist is himself. He has his own experience. He

has to make things out of that experience and he has to do it in his own way but not in an

explicit theory. What he's trying to do is to find truth in his

imagination and communicate it just as a man of action finds truth in action.

What an artist is trying to do is to give you the imagined lives of men and women and

children and in real lives human beings find themselves always in

moral problems and moral situations. The artist is

searching for the essential meaning of these imagined lives he's

searching for the truth that's valid for him and it will be valid for those

people who choose to be his audience. I suppose when we consider

all of these pieces of advice that we get out of successful writers like Mr.

Robert Penn Warren we have to take them with a word of caution because

they have worked for them. They wouldn't necessarily work for anybody else.

There are examples rather than models suggestions

rather than rules. They're not programs of easy action for the

novice. They're somewhat paradoxical but they're the wisdom of a gifted writer

who's trying to understand the difficulties the arteries the

inspiration of his own spirit. Here is Robert Penn Warren.

I don't know why he talked or I thought you know

it was all education

and it takes to teach me how to think. But

nothing is going to make a rider of him accept His will be wise.

Plus there's not enough sense of voters whatever they happen to believe. But he

can hire an eye for eye and all writers do learn the

amount of land by cultivating their own whereas what limits are

right and so far as criticism can be a topic of

discussion like you learn I can be told something years that live

to lag behind the actual process.

During the Battle Hymn of my co-anchor pastor the self-criticism.

I know what to look for what feels good off the was bad how to think

about a piece of work.

It's as simple as how a pilot is taught not taught I mean

young man goes in the studio it looks like I was he's a painter painting he looks at the higher lays it all

about how desolate on.

That little hole is a craft and I would have said there can be observed as a

speculative hope that certain things can't be talked about relation to

value as yet another piece of work said Patty or whatever it happens to

be. But there is a relation of man to himself and to

exercise. Something can be taught. He has this figured out for yourself as well.

Whether Jersey this storied hobby

division of Seve shooters society world well do you think that

the artist bears a direct responsibility to a society that he should

function as a sort of conscience.

I don't think any of it weighed more responsibly pharmacist

or professor or somebody else that

his sponsor the is the matter most and he carried himself and later the other

people in that meeting which he does there happens to be in

terms of language. And in terms of images of human experience

but a fundamental responsibility is a responsibility shared other human beings.

And he's been trying to articulate those bars voters in a special way.

And act them out in the majesty of way while he would have to

act them out in a practical way. With something like that he responsibility is

not different and yet the degree or kind.

From anybody responsible you don't think it differs in degree in the sense that his

word reaches so many people that is the pharmacist may be a small man in his

prime goal every day and I need about a more life but this is a great touch.

Only the people in his immediate vicinity but I'd rather read or better take their

medicine.

The bad vibes where you have your jack in the Caribbean

but you know I think that it is that's the rider can change his design is that he has a certain

responsibility in life where he made live maybe a matter that he

may or may not have a lot of influence probably

vary case to case from one to another.

But it's almost a production of

accidental consideration to distinguish him from other

people on the ground as possible.

I was a Christian for the response of the writers that their

response basically is what about that possibility. There except one thing there

responsibility be rightness to be cured of their crime. That's why me to what they're doing is

right is trying to tell the truth and then respond with as much as the sun there is possible is to

tell the truth in the Cabinet can refuse that there's probably that medium with a

weapon.

What's the point trying to do what is a boy 10 years away tension when he intends to make

a point. As I said only intention he really had was entirely.

That's as I said that's a basic tension. He can't and 10 they mean.

Until the thing is finished. Because if he did intend as many have the

point you are getting there.

He is required to be able to win totally and then the poem in the poem would exist

as a process the end point I'm not about L.. There's a

process I'm discovering what potentialities are in the

germ you start with. You tell yourself you follow you explore

possibilities ask cause manner possible has to be realistic

bad possible. So you've eaten them out.

You say our asteroid Iraqis refuse. What you're really trying

to find somewhere unconscious and fruitful

sense. Of the day. You know ours

ration is going to correspond to your body your feelings about this

original plan. And conform

to the material some interest in the material senses business here but what

you're telling us to make the poem or to write a play.

Actually not to say so as a search or have it means absence.

Because if you haven't if your intention were fully realized they don't exist already.

It would be there for you said I mean you can only only know what you mean by by creating and then there's

the real exploration recreation yourself.

Have your own part of what can I what carry me if I am writing up on

STARTING POINT what can I me and you know you have options along the way with you

but there are options. Hierarchy exercise and I

hand them out loud that if you come to this lion that lion or feel

you. Get better at world view is wrong. You may

stop in arguing the case with you I was a neighbor of yours. Why is it wrong you

can say well it's going to be right. What you said was could be right you got it you can say

well why a thing is wrong or used or that's wasting time time time you say about our

rejections but rejections are ways of chasing me

in a sense another. And the usual

explorations of it's a self exploration in that sense I don't mean.

Exploration of one's own personality that in that way what I actually said was possible when

Kit was capable and actually one of the purposes of driving you right.

Find out what you're going to say ask a good actor and then then you have

the critic to find out. Because you don't care I don't remember saying his

Spanish you care what she said. That's not I don't mean that cynically are you giving to

your mercy I mean I think you don't use room.

It's all good right I have a price for that. Oh say the same thing on that

point they all say that they just don't have any interest or

private interest in you know something has been finished along with this deal so hot you might

know the right amount than that sort of paranoia.

Yeah right on the head but pretty soon

it's different is ours gone was twice I mean I think it

was sometimes a good raised with fundamental dissatisfaction that you think about.

Do you think that this dissatisfaction no is a constructive thing I mean it's essentially a

thing that spurs you write the next thing is that you can assess facts but that's why one can be

because you think you say it isn't good.

Which he always did and said that he's good hope of going and

that innocent hopefully what keeps you going. But today it's not.

It's either not good enough or just plain not good. That's one kind

of satisfaction need for detachment from oh hell out of that next time.

But there over the years it does get us anymore. If you're

going somewhere I even as a little bit away you know him another half the age that

doesn't represent you.

It's already part of the past you know.

That's right that's why you only caught the last of that cell you know.

In discussing the next piece of writing for instance where do you start. Do you

have an idea that is pending upon a lot who are it does a character possess you or do you

simply want to say something anything. The desire to

write itself the mechanics of writing were the store.

Where we take it in general. The evidence says yes to

everything. You can take the same you can take.

Well take Coleridge.

Well he says that apparently in some years but very clearly there

what he wanted to write about the start of it with the U.S. but he couldn't find

what then was called the fable. You say you have an ancient mariner

and he tried to dig one of two things on the same theme and then lie and it didn't pan

out. Your prose poem about Cain.

And then you start the engine mount the subject this the notion of that

poem which you might say which is here you have a fairly clear case of an idea of

pride. To actually invited the prior cases

that a man does have a pretty clearly can see.

I did hear you say all you you can look around you and see

plenty of cases of that. I mean their ad hoc now was an ad hoc poems

all the time you know things written to all go out to

talk about how special occasion you all or to express a social or

political attitude kind of way.

Like they're maybe good maybe bad has to buy a new connection or

some deeper level.

Theme. Has his own they can actually be chosen at the intellectual

property at the state level.

But sometimes I mean I've heard reports say well

this phrase got in my head I have had five years just a phrase get going all the way good

morning here three years and now and then I realize you know I

locked him up.

But this phrase and the

poem makes the phrase all we know how

hard crane posts are is calling us from nowhere process way CD.

I was the last thing from a thematic approaches this other and he's trying to

find German connections to

associations to be Ofra. But there are plenty of cases where the

characters forest where you start with

a character like subjects the book or a boy and you can see

objectively in the forget sound in the page exist outside

of the.

Literary question a man's imagine a character before he starts writing

he has a pretty good notion would you say that writing is a compulsive thing.

Do you have a compulsion to write or do you only write because you train

yourself to discipline yourself.

Well I suppose you have to go back and say why I just I just in yourself.

I just love just a minute. I firmly believe that two kinds one

is trying not to. This with trying not to think about writing. That's one kind of discipline this child like

about things that other perspectives about private paradoxical

I mean that you reading about nonliterary bangs I think things are

literary away I mean whatever happens to be a history of human relations.

President Eisenhower something. Absent often times had to say too close to

writing. That's one just how it is that has our way of thinking about the writing very

closely. I mean the reason is what makes you read a book just so you said

other books are good or bad. Try to formulate the reason see

yourself as I had all the other guy here those who are kind

of just going to type are going out there like the parent the person the paper

write sitting on the tree has just put it into a willingness to waste time knows you

have to wait a lot of time.

And take the responsibility of wasting my time. I know with most days on the bad days.

But this discipline stands from the overall desire to write first which has to

be that rise feeling that you could not write.

That's right I know I can I can. It's the promise to stay away from

right not to get mad. If I stay away from it enough

that there's some hostile and head back there I have to make it

scratching my rich if you don't exercise

you know your scratchy kind of letter. That's come so far just yourself.

Oh and economic necessity.

That would be bad. Do you do much of your relation after considerable period of

time on it and having it get cold.

I try to stay with pace lie more or less satisfied with the

page I cited that can prove it which are two different banks. But

anyway I'm through with the pressure. I don't leave it until I guess and I said as

good a job as I can do now but it is a

public domain. I could be fatal for me I have to do something some other people

do quite differently. But writing a first draft of that I need revising. If I

strive. I can pass it without trying to play for keeps on every page.

And of course I'm not trying to keep an eye disease most of it has gone wrong. So you have to

come back and back.

But the other half it's actually pretty clear that the other half of the to

realize it as fully as possible at that time in that such in

that paragraph in that page in that chapter and stayed in the lab.

This is the best I am our duty to save ever because you'd be there for this book

but you have some points here break us as best that possible and I let you in on.

Otherwise I can tell you this but for me I'm Celeste 30 with a

unit by unit.

The revision time comes that no way I can go back that's. That the end

is at the end of a big unit. He probably had a

whole book and so I don't know how we do it

and go back to that presto long run through and then back again. Good point on your

point you fool around with

points they have today but never very long a time when you know 30

minutes looking for writers to work on.

When I've just finished I finished last I want the last poem

when I said Time Live yes.

Very few days between last September. Two weeks no past I didn't.

Where are the poems in that book.

Well we can use an example from a long life but perhaps we can use an example from a

poem that you've written which will let us in on the

inside. Prose is a revision do you have something like.

This is all I have I want to hear. Are witches are trying to

remember what they. Did see and I guess it's now

one one and a short group of poems called Man in moonlight.

And this is called a walk by moonlight small town.

It may be too long for this purpose it's probably eight or ten stanzas

long lines no five stand alone.

Where does how to manage for this purpose.

Coming down through Ohio comes down there's a rerun of another standard a villian

in a very different style.

I'll leave on my last Friday and we will see this illustrates what I.

Have in mind. I read you there. They are under my

eyes version. And I shan't give you the visions of

the detail niggling how.

Basic They may be hoping they were.

But I'll take a single year to standers and deal with those independently with the hope of God

like this as they are so poor I'm in the firing line. I

stand to the western window full of our

moon light. It must await me where I lay the.

Rumaki Swire and that's who pale day. I

rose dressed walked the summer night I had my years

back I had moved in that composite line.

Moment's green by the way. Now human like frost.

Shadow beasts black in the porches LURD own

house rugs window panes moons marred. Past Some

people read known the whole list. How quite in the depth of

darkness now faces reposed down the

main street window dummies blessed. With lifted head it is there

that limiting it is I. Absolutely think they do a

test. When i hope the day I bought my recently held

possessed. Three box cars loud as

quiet as cowards. They were so tired they had been so far.

SBN k l e n r r. After bumbling

banging where God knows they cracked the rust of this we ranks

for their payola poles. But the mainline

government trying to pass. Those parallels

Moonstruck defied the laws of the space which they applied.

I didn't geometry and gas. Plunged on past time in the south.

Enjoy at last. Not that bright way the

hot ones yearn past daylight past the ninth time.

All problems lies and night time. Chime of the wheel on the battle.

Eyes Burn toward distance and redemptive leap past all

return. I cross the track walked around

the school building hold of me is day beyond the

night the use the other way. Building and grounds

had struck insiders and that predictable fact seen

pitiful to my. Ears. And pitiful was the room the

grounds the address. The ground early

ruin the role it had changed and then I saw

that children were playing with yourself. They ceased their

play and as my Drew slow around

their eyes fixed on me and I now tried to use

pale face to find the name in that hole in my mind.

Each small gazing face would light. Sweet is a pearl

and silver real silver call to the night sky.

But something grew in there. I used to not read probation or

surprise not even forgiveness in their eyes but a

hobo question dollar that they used a phrase like the siege

was dawning on the empty air. My

man but live is truth and might he lived so life by the

moon or sun in dusk or dawn would be all one

then never. Someone I don't need stand and shake

in that blaze up a tiny light.

Lest the first version or not of course know that somewhere along the way.

Now on this time I believe my feelings here on the margin.

I want to first let's take the stance of the two stanzas thrown out.

They filled in six dancers coming out of the box

cars. We have the S the in the Kadian an hour after the

bombing nine where the guard know who's there. Cracked the worst of this reading the

ranks of payola problems. Now the cover to stand as your own.

But the main line double tracked lean past those parallel lines

Moonstruck defied the laws of space in their time of life and in

geometry aghast by past happiness and enjoy life live

life.

I think you see why in the first place is it's our

home our retirement time in Rome wrong

itself and wrong to the power and also this kind of dealing with there.

Are images that is reminiscent of the metaphysical poets of the parallel with us like that

is that in the hour at least distasteful will

do to his alibi. So that entire hour

just threw it away. This is left to you to read.

The next stands up. Oh that bright way. Same trouble.

Then past their life past the night whose time that line might be

used in another context there is no good here at all we couldn't flash

and night time shall we long battle. Well I'm not going to torture myself

going oh that's that's out. But then I was left with

this hole in there and the power.

And all of those tears I have a very uncomfortable feeling that I was being detected

in crime.

They were I wrote about them rather was writing somebody else

asleep. Well not

a mile out of the court might have to go with them because they were poor and couldn't live with

something that. Had a fire at the end of something to bridge the gap.

When I could get by with anything I am ready Transitional Libyan archery is something I want to

point with rather than. Here is what I

guess is good for.

You know as a filler we go back to Mark's Goddess or any

of them are signing this we might explore the next star to Lydia.

Yes long ago at my by that track

I watched the poem slash and say then heard you

quiet the Beat my heart may but the take is

always round trip. Now back I sit in again.

Wife's night distance flee up the empty track across the drive

walked up the ride itself if you will the heart of this day.

Well you can see where they had intentionally Ed as an intrusive rhetoric

and the literary echoes you know to stand.

We're not going to distress myself looking in that moment.

A friend of mine who's done I admired greatly when he was one of our

more eminent critics and colleagues has been pleading with me destroy the

last stanza too.

I haven't yet crossed.

That last half says Yeah.

Well that's it. Yeah anyway.

Robert Penn Warren the writer as creator conversation number eight

in a series exploring the creative process as it pertains to the American artist and

scientist in the 20th century. Host for the creative mind Lyman

Bryson producer for the series Jackie Summerfield with William cavernous and

Eisenberg as production associates next week. John C.

Sheehan the research scientist as creator of the creative mind

is produced and recorded by WGBH FM in Boston for the National

Association of educational broadcasters under a grant from the Educational Television and

Radio Center. This program was distributed by the national

educational radio network.