Human freedom and dignity, part one

Within a single lifetime our physical environment has been changed almost beyond

recognition. Yet there's been little corresponding change in how we as

individuals relate to the world and experience reality.

New tools and techniques of the human potentiality and presenting to

us an exhilarating and dangerous frontier renewing in our minds the old

question what are the limits of human ability the boundaries of the human

experience. What does it mean to be a human being.

Seminar Big Sur are a series of discussions focusing attention on the front tiers of

human development presented by K x K x FM in San Francisco in

cooperation with the Aslan Institute of Big Sur California a Center which studies those

trends and religion philosophy and the behavioral sciences which emphasize the

potentialities of human existence. This week we present highlights of a

discussion from a seminar led by Dr. B.F. Skinner professor of psychology at Harvard

University. The general theme of the seminar was programming nonverbal

behavior. This week's discussion entitled human freedom and

dignity and education. Here now is Dr. B.F. Skinner as he met in

session with his seminar at the Aslan Institute as some of you

now are.

I have been close with associated for

over the years with programs for the

movement that have inspired

and excellent article by George Larry. A lot of other not excellent

has not been

very bad programs and market craziness and

so on and so on and the public have

gotten to dismiss the whole thing as somehow or other relevant

to putting across a simple

but to be quite inadequate to broaden

to include other NGs very well I've finally

got around after the hour and a lot more

numbers that are a ride or answer some of those witnesses.

And you want to go. I gave the paper

Harvard School of Education which is going to appear in a small

book usually by the press doing papers by Caradhras Jerry

Gruner peer in the night

of the match.

That and the teaching

thinking through program instructor right.

Yes thinking is not

really good for the program. I'm less than a month ago a New Yorker gave

birth and motivational aspect of the program structure in

which I raised the question whether this is human whether it misses out

strong personal element. So on. And

to take the burden for

what you really shouldn't need to do with respect

to programming. And whether or not

to educate. You know here

that a lot of close contact with people

I'm all for that. For the tutorial situation in this part of Owens our

Bible replaced today with a need to read your mail and then

do it today your doubts and so on. We certainly

can't solve this problem with the ordinary face to face

teaching and I want to read one

danger one lives here with people that

you know apply these techniques on a broad scale the individual I like to

do that somehow because I want to raise

the question as to whether a. Program

instructing or how much broader operant conditioning.

Can deal with the individuality of the story.

Our zine deal with that. Numbers do

this quite an it often rare connection where

so-called creativity creativity is supposed to be something to assess

for everyone. When the usual them are right you are standing people

and the question is are there others reprogramming that Erica.

My pleasure satisfied or predictive

power I don't like to put it that way. The creative

student I recognise isn't going to be dull and his creative that here

students do the Haven creative work and we want to know why.

But to explain it by saying it's because they possess creativity

that that's a no. And we can move beyond that.

We are sorry where students they hated individual

original creative work and you have to find real cause

rather than fancy dinner causes. If we want to

make the kinds of substantial changes they won't produce the same cause we're

here. Now you may say but this 100 percent here

I have created here you mean behavior that doesn't have any cards. What do you

mean you're going to find the objective because well that is

true if you really know that there is behavior which has no

empathy which is truly original. Then this

formulation wrong hope that the question arises whether the attorneys are

here and I think another way of putting the graph on

this program except of our deterministic or scientists.

There is nothing in the scientific view of man. The question on

individuality everyone is an absolutely you

me carbonate product combination of

multiple sources of genetic and environmental. Every one of us

here is genetic. The place for

you is our fingerprints or find out that individuality. But

every part of our body as unique as our pain your brain

and we have this unique content.

As America where great talent

environmentally were all our different family

backgrounds different backgrounds governmental economic There are.

No nothing about the march Terminus conception of

the car we're the notion of individuality

and the problem really is to see whether we can design a teaching

technique that will further an individuality

that's very different from nourishing something called creativity

creativity or originality presupposes something from our start.

Inside the organ that individuality

recognizes that control or there's outside genetic and

environmental recognizes. There are lots of them. There are unique

combination of these both which reduces and the

other one. Now what time do we want. We certainly

don't want people simply to be different

or unusual. A nightmare is just

creative. As a painter we want more not

the psychotic as a creative person. Sometimes we don't

necessarily want more psychotic. How do we decide on the

kind of individuality we want to foster I

think we have to appeal here to the notion of cultural evolution

and the model which seems more useful for many years actually

biological The natural to.

The evolution of species you have on the one great stability

in that it material much reproduces and with a

great There was a village but the baby would get

nowhere if there were not element

of individuality and these come from without their invitation rather

brought about by external environment or factors of one kind or.

Another I want to tell you our cultural practices. You have

the same kind of thing. There are very the strong need

for stability. We must speak the same language must change too fast

so that we can communicate and must have certain rules of conduct

certain governmental and whatnot and it's important that we

maintain against at least two rapid tracks but

the court would get nowhere or simply settled for stability. There

must be a novelty introduced somewhere. And in

this case we are ahead of the geneticist at all he's beginning to talk

about deliberately producing certain kinds of mutations and

changing the germ plasm. We can already do that in the Cultural Revolution. We can

literally change practice. And those are the mutations which will then

be selected as a culture was wrong or at least

in terms of practice work or not. Well we have

we don't this is not a very good value to go by but we have a valuable

survival guide. We have culturally

range in order to survive and attempt to reduce change which

will make that more likely one of the things certain I would support and

that people being in the middle as they can be in

turning up what are essentially called the new play which will then contribute

to the eventual strength of the

parallel theme for me good enough for all our current revolutions remarking

with biological level of many different workers. Now

let's look at actual techniques.

Control you never in the education elsewhere and see what can

be done about Margaret Sanger

that the individuality of the student most likely to emerge is most likely to

do things which are different from a lot of people do. And

yet again most likely contributed to the culture.

When the press played where are controlled by other people there are reasons

why religion's government forces control

religion and government usually work through adversity and draw our rules and

violate economics were true to

persuasion paper doing this other thing. You

operate your cell on the right power

or controls and can be an arm as you it was me that

education should accept one of its goals. Making

people aware of the extent to which they are drawn by other people. And.

Teaching them how to resist their role that education itself is involved.

It's important to manage students in a governmental science and sport and there

are other ways in which the educators want to play to have attempted control Now

any person who is being controlled by others by institutions or

by other person as an individual. Him not himself an

individual so we have to look at this very closely. How can you

limit the extent to which people are controlled by other people. So either they

will be free to

education in addition to using of residence and drop

students around them. That's another problem you

have to get the student in a particular way so that they

need to be reinforced. This is a problem. For instance what I think you

do something you got it for you doing

you just can't sit around waiting for something build up

special repertoire which enabled us to get the student to behave in a

given sort of force Britain example or simply telling them what to do

given instruction or given directions 24 hours or something

happens and you then learn for example that. Struck you know how to

operate a piece of equipment. You first of all operated by the power in the structure and

the work and that teaches you how to operate and even forget the directions and

operate in the equipment without that of the verbal control which was there in prison

and we do that when we do not it when we tell them what to

do. We even the words To reach of these feet given time and so

on. Eventually we want that support to be drawn and

that's to become not dependent on people as groups our

health. Kind of think about this.

People who are corrupted by other people but that nature made everyone good. We want

to get students independent of people and have them

think and you're doing that for example if you have a child that's been

in the school in the morning and you every morning there's a hurry up now it's time.

I will wait for you have now it's time for the women. Sure but you was

making dependent on the clock rather than on your

person and free to do their very difficult to withdraw are

your verbal drawer and bring him under the control of either

an internal.

Or sometimes only because of our time on this floor or the clock on the

wall. But it has to be done eventually or remains dependent on another

person. Our dependence on things can be quite rig

rigid unit doesn't mean it's going to be an individual as soon as you watch the clock. But

things where things change right. People do not. People can

perpetuate their own kind on the except if you can make

students dependent on things rather than on other people you are maximizing the

chance that they will be influenced by changes in the physical environment which

will be indeed now the student producing all primed for now.

One of the things the preachers do is to build up an imitator repertoire. We teach not only to

imitate us to speak the words we seek to do it that way by we way

via bias or on and then we do we continue this dancing

teacher that fills up all the doors and the repertoire steps and you can show you a new

dance by doing it and you do the same thing before you go if you know the steps and so

on that can become very powerful. So we go around imitating

people in the little time I've been embarrassed by this myself. Terrible

imitative to see someone come in and sit down and try to talk to me and the

four other reporters are in them forward and

then you're all there. And before I know I

talked to a professor from Cambridge University only five

being a very efficient price

for originality.

Being like other people I was very important to have that in the

repertoire in the beginning. People that take you a

long time just

reinforcement but the whole art of

vanishing gravel another support program and you're right

hard work very clever technique

for withdrawing the support we put in the first place

so that they are then the. Thing

for people and people that teach further

education and help me understand the art of getting that here

you're there in the first place and then withdrawing our

instructional support leaving the student dependent on the world at large is already

facing up to this problem and it and I'm sure that we

have techniques available now for our

repertoire of behavior of another without having

any reason you will drop from teacher to interfere

with the possibility that the student will now respond novel features

of the environment. But there are a few things.

What about this what about the knowledge we impart whatever the skills we

are as you know we sign books to

be read to be listened to get examined and when they can they've been

read and listened to and so on. And the dollar.

Live your own education. It is that the students would understand

perfectly what he's taught or more or a little book.

The rule book on how to read a book incest the birth during the

reader is to understand exactly what the authors.

Get together in a group and back to work.

Man let's get going much too far

and I don't think there's any reason to understand things perfectly.

And you'll be a lot more original if you don't you know

educational as it is constructed now are we set. Perfect

understanding is the goal for that we say right because we don't teach

people don't really understand.

And yes there have been times in history and education is extremely powerful and

limited to a pure notebook retard writer and the

result was very far from create for all of you.

The behavior you had imparted to a stick and isn't now just what somebody else

has said in the past or done in the first in the case of CEOs and it was so well

that there was no chance for it to transfer in this situation and I would be united hard

to make this case that I would be in for deliberate

design instructional techniques that don't quite work.

Don't put things across too clearly or to well I think that

you can get across what is useful in the past. You can transmit

body of culture without transmitting it in a rather rigid form which is

represented by a book. And have the pursuers

large numbers of students who would be most likely. Now with this in their

possession to deal with new situations as they arise. Because if you

never get to behavior. Defiant

to specifically under the control of certain scenes it won't generalize on France for

other situations. So rather than these two points and I

might summarize as far as I do occasion must teach. In

such a way that its own influence disappears as fast as possible and what

it teaches should not be true

rigidly tied down to specific patterns. This isn't

going to make progress much originality. Even so. There aren't

more deliberate ways of producing

unusual crimes for hate. You can teach

the techniques of discovery for example really wanting

said Jane education discovery map and I know that elsewhere I

think in general it's not correct. Think of

discovery being taught properly and I don't think you need

to imply to the steward and he doesn't need to learn what other people know

that he can discover the whole sum and substance of human knowledge himself but

it is really important to teach exploration curiosity and so

on and curiosity again is not a trait not something like creativity.

That explains why people are curious. If you want people to curious you must

reinforce him for looking things. Recently I had a friend who

got a new car. She was teaching the dog to fetch and she'd

throw something out and feel your job or run if you found anything that you didn't find them

right back and she wouldn't go out and get it. Never gave that

are a chance to discover that perhaps just turning their heads would turn out the size

of the stick that she was for hours.

As is true of children and less valid.

If you explore without helping you never give them the

chance to acquire the behaviors of looking you're looking for and

and so on and really therefore making sure

out of course we tend to punish curiosity. Than not.

And reinforce for people working and so on and then we turn around

and sisters that is not an appropriate face this

part frowned and that your scientific research would be of this nature in you.

You can teach see things not feeling that tonight as I have done with it in this ride on

teaching. Thank you but your family properly designing

instructional materials build up a high level of curiosity and

dedicated search which will bring the

individual maximally under the control of not all aspects

of the environment which no one's ever responsible for and this is one of the great sources of the

forest. I'm individual of the novel the creativity

in addition to that there are no special techniques that

help people you use to produce you know I think there

are some of them acquired. Simple if you're a short story writer and want a

new plot you can get a thing called plot on your screen some wheels has turned up a

character national hero in an instant.

You got a couple of these characters in this film and so on you've got a hell of a story and you're

going to break this and this is where are you going really. Plus you don't need. We also

always get down on you and take standard I mean

first the sex of the prince for characters or something like that you bet your life. The

logicians in that magicians are always doing that as the first time somebody is I'd

question one of your friends actually underbody Russia and all the other ones like

no particular reading your question see what happens if you're Chinese

physicist who discovered in on paragraph four years each shake the genius of

divination system and you're like a bundle of sticks and for all and then the

pattern leads you to an encyclopedia and you look under that pattern and you're alive

and that you were sentences. And some of them will be relevant somehow or

other that what you get. It works best of all you don't take it seriously.

Which I'm sure to face to prison but there are ways of cooking

are entirely original thing or just a random get as

accidental as the atomic radiation will be introducing all of the

monsters financial that mutation is an

accident. The drop of a bundle of sticks is an accident that it

produces in the first place an original species perhaps satin and original.

There's something that I wanted to read you know these are only two

little techniques exploration. Now all environments

and the generation of now I dear reader only too

many I can go under and I wonder as a question. What

happens when. You know order to encourage a person to be

an individual who would deliberately wait for original

back paper and then reinforce.

How we do it. Your glib relay or by active button

that writes I want to raise with you is what the significance of a thing is scientifically

if I it just specifies some particular behavior on the part of the nervous

system. I can make that up or wait for it to occur. The force of the never

got the behavior that the old technique in animal trials. Karen what.

But supposing now instead of specifying in advance.

Behavior I'm going to reinforce I simply say it must be new that

what happened. Well it turned up a

little bit smaller and not very conclusive but interesting

as has been done with the porpoises at sea life park

and on the lower side of the loop and I was out there a couple weeks ago and

cried my hard work was just to make sure I take that here.

But let me tell you what I did this experiment to give you at

Best Buy Pam. The redox.

This Friday part of our basic research

they don't want any more inland people come and say

this is for a purpose there are mentally I was of

our first and then we will back

flips and so on the moment and

so on and coming through and

it was an operant technique for the public

to see that actually true. So every day

hours and on top of the doing of

the pigeon and I am

fine.