Program 5

Speaking of Mexico.

Radio television the University of Texas in cooperation with the National

Association of educational broadcasters presents speaking of

Mexico.

Professor Lauren Mosley is professor of art at the University of Texas.

Professor order extraordinaire National University of Mexico and former member of the Latin

American Studies Institute the University of Texas. Professor Mosley

will be discussing Mexican art with two of his colleagues from the University of Texas

professor Mark Baron off an art educator and distinguished printmaker and

Professor Terrence Grier an art historian whose specialty is in the pre-Colombian

field and more particularly in my own art.

I expect that most of you who have bothered to tune in on this

program will know something about Mexican art already and I expect that what you will know will have to

do with the great figures of Rivera and a Roscoe who seem to dominate

the picture of Mexico until recent years.

Since the death of a Roscoe a number of quite interesting new

developments are taking place in Mexico and it is this later

contemporary or avant garde Mexican art that we're going to be talking about for the most part.

However perhaps it is worthwhile trying to say a few

things about the art which existed before the great art of the Mexican

muralist the art which seem to dominate Mexico from the end of the revolution.

The over gone period until perhaps the end of the Second

World War. And I wonder Mr. Burns off if you would like to start off

by saying something about the art of Rivera and these other man in particular

perhaps about the political implications of some of their work.

Well first the Mexican in your lists and this was a

mural movement in the beginning was directed.

It was an art that was meant to serve the people particularly their programme

of political change economic change and social change and the

art was was supposedly an art that would be available to people

who were not trained in the European mode

of painting that was prevalent in the 20s. And

so while Europe was in ferment as far

as the aesthetics were concerned the aesthetic.

Revolution didn't occur so much in Mexican art except in that the

mural developed and particularly with the big three of Arrow school

Rivera and secure us.

The subject matter of Mexican painting of course was very different from that or the

absence of subject matter in Europe and the fact that it was

a painting done for the Ministry of Education and done in public buildings meant that

it conformed to to a large extent and reflected the the attitudes of the

Mexican government the enlightened Ministry of Education of the period. But what about

the other side of this art. What about the form that it took.

Mr. GREENER this art we've mentioned is dominantly mural

art the. Painting these murals was in Fresco and it took them

several several hard tries to develop the fresco technique.

Their amusing stories of attempts to recreate this lost

fresco technique impregnating the plaster with all kinds of oils and so on.

But gradually the technique was perfected. The problem in

increasingly a problem was the fact that most of the early murals were painted on very

old walls in old schools or old buildings converted to

use as administration buildings for the government. And after the

technique of fresco painting was perfected still the walls often were full of moisture and

so on. Since. Some of these murals are

now 30 years old or so. The walls have become increasingly dilapidated behind many of them

and require a lot of fear.

I remember Rivera wants talking about the fact that someone had reported that to

Pingo seem to be falling apart. Seemed not to be at all

concerned he simply said Well I painted it in an old building that was in bad condition to

begin with and when it falls down I suppose that they will build a new building for some young

man to paint in one of the interesting things about the U-19 twenties

was that these modern artists and although they seem to not be like the

modern artists of Europe they were not certainly old hat or conventional in the

usual way. One of the interesting things about their painting was that they had to do this

art on old walls. And I think that perhaps this influenced

the pharmas sometimes as well as the fact that they were they were thinking about fresco and

turned their minds back naturally to the Italians to people like Black

Giotto and others. But were there not other other sources

for material for subject rather than the revolution itself.

Would you care to say a thing about that Mr. Brown.

You're probably referring specifically to the Indian.

Background where the forms perhaps were more geometric

particularly in the murals we find a certain realism and yet smoothing out

of the individual anatomical areas into a somewhat

monumental expression which is very easily recognized as Mexican

mural art.

What about the folkloric elements in the folklore elements are especially stressed

by Diego Rivera who really made his reputation on folklore.

We tend often I think to overemphasize the political character of this art

which was a strong element of say the art of

carols particularly in the 30s but the original mural art was

poetic often concerned with natural things the elements and so on. And

after nine hundred twenty six with the entry of the

regime the art of most of these men saw a

rascal for example. Tended to cut down on

political attitudes and emphasize folklore or.

Or regional costumes and customs of Mexico.

Of course in the early stages these men turn to the Mexican past in all of its

farms the Mexican world around them for subject far far farms. One of

the interesting things to me was the manner or the the timing of

in Rivera's painting the introduction of modern farms when the peasant

seemed to disappear and the man in overalls often with a hammer and sickle

began to come into the painting it was about this time that Rivera shocked the world

by moving out of his house full of idols an old Mexican type house

and into a red structure on stilts which had been built for him in the

international mode by a young young architect. This of course was

simply a part of their attempt to make this painting of theirs truly a part of

contemporary Mexico.

I think we While there certainly was a political and I think we often overemphasize it

the art of. Say particularly was humanitarian

without being very specifically political. Even the art of the

secure OS which he intends to be political has a strong humanitarian

basis without specific political ideals.

In most cases yes of course he's not he's not in jail at the moment because of his painting

activity that he's simply paying for political activity which he regards as an important

part of his own his own life. There are also of course men who did not paint

murals. There was a very fine group of easel painters

men like Carlos Marriott who did small pictures.

Castellanos who who painted his finest pictures in an extremely small

scale. And then what about the what about the graphic

artist of that scene Mr. Baron off that in the graphic arts the revolutionary ideas of the

900 20s seem to have continued longer.

Well yes it seems that the the art form that we don't know is

graphics particularly the use of the woodcut was very strong.

Form of art in that it carried the traditional idea of the Kerr

career which was a kind of penny broad sheet

of Bell Labs or satirist or some doggerel verses that

the peasants could comprehend. This is part of the continuing

idea of the folklore and was taken up very strongly by an

earlier man Posada. Do you know anything about the saga

went to region.

Certainly very popular artist with all the

later mural painters digger Rivera and Roscoe both look back to him as one of their

predecessors and admitted their debt to him frankly.

Actually they present our present knowledge of Posadas almost entirely due to the

enthusiasm which these men had for his work. All of them claim that as

boys they really were not interested in the art lessons they were having in San Carlos and used to hang

around watching the old man do his carvings or his his his engravings

directly on Metal I'm not sure how much truth there is in that Mr Brown.

Well I don't know if Assad died in 1913 and I really don't

know when these other men started. Whether they were active in that

part of the century. However the push saga died

and his his art really went into eclipse until Josh Harlow

rediscovered him and brought him to the attention of the Mexican public and the Mexican

artists and from 19 20 on we have this resurgence of the

graphic techniques in 1037 specifically a group of

artists formed a group known as the type that offical

popular lar. And in this group we find somewhat a political

overtone yet.

Together with the folklore of Mexico expressed in the wood caught of course the

lithograph is one of the reasons for the for the success of the Thai Air and

for its continuing liveliness is the fact that these were

used not just for exhibitions not used as illustrations except for

very cheap books which were sold at it at the lowest possible price in order to

help in getting rid of illiteracy. But some of the more

violent of these graphic works were used for

propaganda of various sorts governmental for advertising for a billboard for

that kind of thing. Of course the Homo the whole expression of the

Mexican his freedom to express himself on political matters has

has varied with the regimes during the Oberg

own regime was very friendly to the artists at least in the beginning although he later described

their art as fake ugly ism.

During the Kiowas period most of these men actually lost their walls.

Cicadas had to leave the country in exile or Roscoe had no jobs he came up to

this country and worked in California and in New

York and even Rivera was hardly able to return with

perfect freedom to Mexico until after the sort of success the

scandalous success which he had in this country by the time of the Second

World War Of course these men were were great well-known international

figures and all of them came back to work in Mexico. It was about

the end of the Second World War that they had for the first time some

fine modern spaces provided for them in the buildings which were put up

as a sort of window dressing for a rather corrupt regime that of President al

Amman that famous series of buildings which we call the University

City.

I wonder if you'd like to say anything about this architecture and its relation to the art history to

this striking architectural complex known as the universal University City.

Was a great opportunity for the mural is of course because it provided them with new walls

for the first time really on a grand scale and also for the first

time large scale walls outdoors. This is what the kero said always insisted

upon the walls be outdoors where the masses could see them so many of the early murals

are inside buildings where the masses could scarcely penetrate.

The walls were treated in some new ways to their

mosaics and all kinds of new materials tiles

and stone mosaics added to the walls. Sometimes

in relief. So the effect is something new and modern. Still this carries on a

tradition of mural painting that goes back into the 1920s

in a sense.

It's the last gasp of the great mural movement. And in a

sense perhaps something new to it still is so new that we

can't tell what the next phase will be. But it's the last statement by so far by the

greats of carols for example.

And of course Roscoe it's hard to believe hard to remember but a Roscoe died

in the late 1940s. And by that time Rivera's art.

Was already quite predictable and in a kind of decline as far as its influence

on younger people was concerned. The two great figures who seem to be

emerging at that time although they were not young men. They were vying

for positions of importance in Mexico where the figures of cicadas and

Tomei Oh they are very different figures. I wonder if Mr. Brown often would like to say

something briefly about cicadas.

Six years of course is probably one of the more dynamic painters.

His art is somewhat allied to the Expressionist techniques

expressionist. It's not a form of Europe and yet it's distinctly

Mexican. I think security is probably the one artist

who we think of as has more political in nature perhaps

than a ROSKO particularly because of his lions with left

wing parties.

He's also always been curiously insistent on the third dimension.

And those people who are shocked at this in his paintings it should not

be so shocked or surprised that simply a part of his statement and you've either got to take

this or leave the whole man alone in opposition to him is that

the figure is the figure I HAVE TO MY Oh Mr. Grieger to my was

distinct in Mexico and as a matter of fact has been under a cloud in

Mexican circles for some time.

Because they considered him International and to be international was

to be non Mexican to the Mexicans in the last few

decades. Actually tomorrow probably is a

sincere and it seems to me to be a sincere and really completely Mexican artist in spite of the

internationalism of his art and of his life. He spent a great deal of his life in New

York. Still his his style and his

topics are deeply rooted in Mexican ideas and Mexican

artistic styles he grew up as an artist that is working

in the national museum doing ethnic ethnological or at the graphic drawings

of earlier Mexican art pre-Colombian Mexican art which has deeply influenced his

style probably more directly than has

pre-Colombian art influenced any of the other great Mexican artists to Myal also

is important for his loyalty to the

easel painting. He's never been a great painter he's done a number of

murals but they all turn out to be strongly in an easel tradition.

And this easel tradition seems to be the one that has suddenly triumphed in the last few

years. The mural movement has declined and easel painting has returned with a

vengeance in Mexico.

Of course there have also been some changes in the general political

climate in Mexico and the

imprisonment of secured OSS has meant that the that the more active

politically minded artists have boycotted some of the large exhibitions

and we now are seeing on

the part of another group of artists a kind of reaction. We're only

seeing one side but this new side that we now seem to be seeing

in Mexican painting is extremely interesting. It is not so

different from what one might expect to see in Italy are in Scandinavia. It's quite like

some of the so-called abstract expressionism in our own country. But it

is rather a new thing. It's rather strange to see this now in

Mexico. They have a very fine big

bi annual show there which includes painting from all of the American countries

and it's been very interesting to see the new directions which Mexican painting now seems to

be taking Mr. Brown off what is your impression of this painting.

Now the painting at the moment I think is quite international in

its character. The sculpture less so and the graphic

arts a little less so I think the graphic arts particularly carries on with

the tradition of genre or art perhaps more than any of the

others not in painting we have the influences

coming from the United States and Paris quite strongly. There is

still I Mexican flavor in the color coloration but the

forms are really International in character.

What about what about the painters themselves. Do you distinguish any interesting new

figures.

But I would agree we're speaking of internationalism and we can pick out some international

tendencies even among the painters lives for example.

One that I particularly admired the center row whole Catalonian from

Barcelona who's been active in Mexico since his 20s.

And there are other important Spaniards and other.

Europeans active now in Mexico. Felix Candela is

Spanish for example. The Great Architect. So there is this actual

infusion of international blood and ideas into Mexican art.

Of course one of the interesting things is that most of the of these young men were painting in

quite a different manner until quite recently. And some of them are

very young. The most famous of them perhaps is the artist quite of us

who is not. He is within the general tradition let's say

of Hispanic satire of Ghajar even of men like

pasada or of an earlier Mexican rule us. There's a young man who has more than

one young man named Coronel what a sculptor and painter. And there

and there are others.

What about other expressions than the painting Mr. greater.

What about architecture or are you just about architecture particularly seems to me to be

vigorous in Mexico these days with all kinds of new dramatic

possibilities being exploited in the use of concrete.

Felix Candelas constructions in concrete comparable to the

famous ones of nervy in Italy or other international movements

are one of the only one of the exciting developments in Mexican art.

Mexican architecture. Has always emphasized

color and texture more than the more sedate North

American architecture. And this is probably best

known to us in the university city which has used the

mural mosaic and uses of colored stone and

various techniques of textures on the surface to enliven their buildings.

What about sculpture.

Mexican sculpture particularly in this past decade is be

coming rather closely related to architecture as a

decorative member. I think this is one of the significant factors about American

Mexican architecture in that they use of sculpture is so

predominant today.

Yes of course. We're even now getting some religious oughta get in Mexico

religious architecture. The one the one part of the Mexican

past which they had disowned for so long was a colonial.

I don't know whether there is much relation between the the Mexican baroque and and

some of the new decoration which one finds in contemporary buildings but

one might sense something of the sort. Mr. GREENER would you make any kind of prediction

about the about the next direction in Mexican art.

It's always difficult to say which way an art movement is going to go but I think we can be

pretty sure that internationalism will continue to be a dominant trend in Mexican art

and in Mexican art architecture and and all its related arts.

I think this is inevitable with the development of middle class ideals which

is so strongly evident in Mexico and the increasing

industrialization and its. Consequent increasing

wealth in Mexico that the isolation and peasant folklore

ideals will become more and more sentimental ideals with a consequent

increase in the urban abstract international ideas that

we see today.

Of course life in Mexico Mexico itself has changed tremendously since the

1920s since the time of OBRA gone and the and this earlier

revival. I think perhaps then if we might I

might sum up some of the things that we've said this evening. We could say

that in Mexico for a number of years following the

Mexican Revolution there was a very fine significant

expression which was quite Mexican which was different from that of the rest of the world which

was political which was monumental which tried to

look to the Mexican past in the contemporary Mexican life for its subject.

That this art was not only involved in the political

life of contemporary Mexico but. Quite subject to it and

that it had the riparian in which it flourished and periods in which

it seemed to be in disfavor and had no great public support and it would seem fair to

say that while what seems to be happening in Mexico now and not just in the

art but perhaps in the whole modernization of the Mexican life.

Is International is new is fresh is still not too

certain Not too well defined. It is in the hands of a

number of promising young men. We should not forget

that political winds may change in Mexico and the political

winds may affect the kind of painting that is looked on with favor and encouraged in

Mexico but certainly even though the great figures of the

1980s are now no longer with us are now no longer active with us. We can look

forward to another period I'm sure a significant development and activity

in Mexican art in architecture in painting in

city planning.

In all of these various forms besides Mexico

about which we've been talking this evening there of course are a number of

other Latin American countries and in all of these countries

practically there has been some sort of interesting art movement

ever since the 15th century since the earliest days of the

Conquest. There are some interesting parallels between the arts of these

peoples and the art of our own country and that of Mexico and some rather interesting

differences also between them and between Mexico and

themselves. Not all of these countries of course have had the same

revolutionary history the same recent revolutionary history that we find in Mexico.

And so there has not been except for brief periods when the

artists of Latin America were under the strong influence perhaps of CKD hosts who live

there for a while or Orozco or of Rivera. There has not ever been quite

the didactic revolutionary school of art that we find in Mexico.

There was no Renascence comparable to that of the 1920s

in the in Mexico City.

But since the since the 19th century since the period of independence

for these countries there are in many ways has been parallel to that of Mexico and parallel to

that of our own country previous to that of course on the West Coast there had been

a wonderful Indian expression of those great cultures the Andean

cultures of the eastern part the Indians that had been simply very primitive

people as in some places they still are today. And during the colonial period

particularly in Ecuador in Colombia and in Peru

there was not only excellent architecture strongly influenced by European models but

some local schools of painting particularly in places like

Cusco all of this gave way in the 19th century to a kind of

internationalism very much like the later form of that same

thing which we find today in those countries as here in the United States in the

19th century religious painting. Gave way to

nationalistic painting painting of the history painting and sculpture

of the events of their own revolutions painting and and sculpture

portraits of the important liberal leaders the generals and men of that sought. There

was a lot of architecture largely when it was elegant under the influence of

France when it was practical under the influence of this country. R R

England there were parks and squares cities beautiful 19th century

cities were built.

This has been Mexican art with Professor Loren Mosley Professor

Mark Baron off and Professor Terence grader from the University of Texas

speaking of Mexico was produced by RNC Norris and directed by B

W Crocker eyed Radio-TV the University of Texas under a grant in

aid from the National Association of educational broadcasters.

This is the N A B Radio Network.