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The topic on this week's Behind the classroom door from northern Illinois University's

College of Education is the ideal teacher for today's schools.

Here's the moderator Dean Robert F. top.

I think one of the important thoughts in connection with the ideal teacher for today's

schools is the today's schools aspect of this

discussion because schools have changed so much in the past generation.

Today of course more people go to school and the

program in school reflects a change from a rural

type of society to an urban society. And so we

moved a long way from the one room rural school. Where the teacher could

have merely a high school diploma or perhaps a two year

normal school diploma. And handle the situation quite well.

Now we have many complex cities that

require that a teacher have a different type of preparation.

It seems to me that no teacher no might need as much

as a master's degree. This is a requirement in some states and the type of

preparation has to be very different.

Certainly the teacher in the elementary school today needs to be much better

qualified than the teacher of 25 or 30 years ago. As you stated

a generation ago a teacher could begin teaching at the elementary school level with

a high school diploma and sometimes maybe one summer session

in a State Normal School. While today the situation is much different.

For example in my opinion the feel of elementary education is

so broad that a person with a doctorate majoring in elementary

education and all levels still wouldn't know all the answers.

I wonder Lloyd. Aside do you know that within the

last few years there has been a tendency to push subject matter

downward. In other words much of the material that normally would have been covered

at the high school level today is being covered in the elementary schools.

And if you took one field as an example

mathematics certainly the content covered in elementary school

is. Something of a level that normally would have been covered

in junior high school or even the senior high school level.

Of course we've learned so much about the psychology of learning

and child development and I think the preparation of a teacher has had to be

expanded in these areas as well as in the content areas and an

elementary teacher particularly in the past at least has not been viewed

as requiring a high level of preparation. And in fact some school

district required a Master's for high school teachers but not for elementary school

teachers.

It seems to me that we've been using the term degree requirements for the

teacher rather loosely. We say that a teacher should have a minimum of a

bachelor's degree or a master's degree or a teacher might even be

required to have a doctor's degree but you haven't said anything about

the field of preparation. Teacher on the

high school level was teaching chemistry. I think a Master's Degree or a

doctorate in chemistry would be most. Valuable to this

teacher. But this doctor's degree very well could be in some.

General aspect of teaching but I think for this teacher of

chemistry we should insist that degree be in the field of chemistry.

Well at the same time we can't deny the fact that some of the poorest teaching

has been done in some of the areas of the sciences because the

individual teacher didn't have an understanding of adolescent psychology

tests and measurements and some of the new methods that are being developed foreign languages

are case in point to where more people have been driven away from the

study of foreign languages because of the poor approach to the instructional methods

used.

What I was getting at was this in so many cases on an E..

Secondary school allow both an administrator who is hiring a teacher will just look for that

master's degree he might not care what field it said oh yeah it might not have

any relationship at all to what he expects his teacher to be doing but

certainly on a master's degree for a teacher of

English what would be most valuable if it would be in that field.

I think it's important that the teacher and the degree in the area where he

expects to teach or to work we've had in the past.

A lot of young men decide to choose a degree in school administration.

These are young men who are teachers and they were looking forward to the possibility of becoming a

school administrator. And so instead of thanking their masters as you've indicated

Leo in their area of teaching they moved into administration took

a master's degree in administration and then only a small percentage of them were

actually obtained assignments in school administration because there aren't

many such jobs compared to the number of jobs teaching. So we

discovered large numbers of young men teaching science for

example with a master's degree in school administration.

I suppose if you're talking about a total faculty it perhaps would be better

to have a balanced faculty at Edwards. Some of the people who would have the type of

preparation that Leo magine. With advanced

degrees in content fields but certainly on the total faculty it would be good

to have someone for example who would have a master's degree in

curriculum somebody else who has a master's degree instructional

techniques someone in instructional media

so that I think it's quite difficult. Talk about a total school in terms of

the individual teacher. I also think that in terms of our topic for

today the ideal teacher is

rather hard to define because I think the important thing is that

a student should come in contact with as many different types of teachers as

possible during a school day or at least during his school life

so that some teachers may be ideal for certain students

and other teachers who are quite different.

Maybe ideal teachers for a different group of students but before we

leave and I think probably we can leave the preparation to teachers it seems to me

that we have to recognize. That the preparation of a

teacher whether he's the ideal teacher or not. I suspect there is no ideal

teacher should involve content preparation Surely he must

know his subject matter quite well and at least know where he can find some

answers in preparation for the next day's class because we discover that you don't

remember all of these facts that you are and in your youth you learned in your earlier degrees

you must have a general education that makes him a cultured

citizen one who can communicate well with

his with adults and children alike. And then he must have some of

the methods and some of the tools of teaching.

And here I think we're negligent in areas like tests and

measurements. Where it is very important that every teacher

regardless of his subject matter understanding testing techniques in his

particular area and furthermore that he understand how to interpret and use

standardized test results which are part of his knowledge and

identifying children's needs and helping plan their future.

Well I certainly would agree that he must know those things and many more

things about the realities of teaching and learning. For example today we

talk a lot about recognizing differences in learners in

school. And believe it or not some teachers do not

recognize that different children learn in different ways and at different rates and

so forth. And then we have this problem of providing a learning environment where what

I might call a favorable environment for learning in a school

and again some teachers if they're if they're not properly let's say

prepared for the jobs they may not recognize the importance of this.

Well Ray you know your comment that where we're glad to have

children in contact with a wide range of personality types if you will

among their teachers is true.

There is a wide range of personalities that can be successful as teachers

and they might be ideal for some of the students whereas another type of personality would

be ideal for another group of students.

On the other hand I think there are some individuals who

because of you know heritage traits or perhaps

environmental influences that cause them to relate in a different way to people for

example. We should not be in the classroom not of our own experience we have

known individuals who just lacked lets say leadership ability and

somehow or other they couldn't gain this no matter how hard they tried. Beginning Teacher

frequently staggers and stumbles with the problem of college discipline our control

and recovers. The second year this teacher enters a classroom with a different attitude.

But there are some people who just don't have it and they can't get it. And then I think

also of communication. Some individuals words just don't seem to

come out the way others can understand them. And so there are some people

who shouldn't continue in teaching or shouldn't enter teaching and I suppose it's our job to

try to identify these.

I think that what you're saying is true however the. Role of the

teacher in many schools is changing so that the teacher does not have

to be good in all areas. I think in the past we've expected teachers to be good

lecturers to be good in leading small group discussions to

be good in counseling youngsters to be good in test and measurements.

In other words to be good in too many fields. And the idea of

differentiating a staff in which you have team members

composed in other words a team composed of such people as an outstanding

lecturer. Other people whose skills tend to be in human relations work

well with small groups some people who know much more about test and

measurements and are responsible for supervising teachers in constructing

test items are changes within the school that I

think will enable us to utilize people with a vast array of

talents and abilities to a much greater degree than we have in the past.

I also think that some of our certification requirements have been aimed at

keeping people out of the profession rather than encouraging

individuals who have abilities with along certain

lines to come into the profession.

At the same time every teacher it seems to me has

got to have certain. Qualities certain abilities you

just I don't think you can be a good teacher if you don't like young

people. I don't think you can be a good teacher if you don't

recognize the fact that these people before you are in the process of

becoming in you're there to help them. And I sense in some teachers

the idea that they're there to eliminate those weaker ones flunk them

out. And I just think that there is this is not the

attitude or the position that a teacher can take in this regard.

Well I'd certainly like to pursue this idea this topic of discipline a little more

because certainly an ideal teacher is one who has a good

environment in the classroom one who doesn't have a lot of trouble with discipline.

And I know that in the school of yesterday many times teachers maintain

let's say discipline through control. I maintain discipline I'd

say and control through fear let's say in a part of the children while

today we wouldn't consider that as an ideal teacher at all.

And of course in those days good discipline was sit still and be quiet all the time we

were asking something impossible of the kids.

I think it is important to realize how the concept of good

discipline has changed. I recently visited a school

that had no walls so that all of the elementary grades

were together with it actually in separate parts of a large

learning center that also served as the library.

And when I first walked into this building I was amazed by

the level of noise which was very great by the freedom the

children had to move throughout the entire learning complex. And yet

as I observed what the children were doing I saw children do things that

amazed me. For example a second grade youngster got up and left his

group walked over to the audiovisual part of the learning center.

Found a filmstrip that he was looking for took it over.

Put it into a film star projector and ram a film star projector himself

and a youngster in the second grade. I might say we have some faculty members who

have difficulty running the filmstrip projectors who have been teaching for many

many years.

If that describes I think the change in our attitude toward discipline we want

children not to be disciplined externally but to gain freedom the more

freedom they can have the better to direct their own learning in their activities and their behavior.

And someday we're going to have this worked out so that children do more of this.

RAY It seems to me that this type of teacher that would fit into a situation like you've

just described would would be rather unusual. I can't see

this teacher being a beginner. It would seem to me that this teacher

would have to. I have had much experience prior to this.

This type of situation.

I talked Leo with the director of the program and director said that they

actually have had greater success with people who have had experience

but limited experience that individuals who had taught for several years

tended to get into a pattern of teaching within a conventional classroom.

And although there were exceptions to this that in general when those people tried to

teach in the open complex constantly being observed by

visitors by other teachers they had great difficulty in

adjusting to that type of freedom or flecked actually flexibility

would be better word I think than freedom but.

Many of their teachers tended to be quite new and fact some

were beginning teachers but most were people who had talked to three years.

Somewhere in that category I think I would agree with you re. I don't think that

these need to be older long experienced teachers. I think in the

preparing of teachers if we can give them experiences in schools like the one you

described and let them do their student teaching in the schools like

that they will be more ready to step right into a situation like that than a teacher

who has been teaching for 20 or 30 years.

You know your mentioning of the hop up and the noise in the movement in that room

is something that is characteristic of many a hard working

situation. It does happen in a regular classroom you can walk into

a regular classroom regular in the sense that it is one room

one class one group of 25 youngsters or so and a skillful

teacher will have these learning areas and there will be a lot of movement and a lot of wiggling

going on and to the observer. You may think well how can the children concentrate

because user group over in the corner is working on something that requires their reading to

each other perhaps. Here's another group working with the audio visual equipment. Well if

they do it and they do it very well. In fact they've carried on a few experiments in this

regard me and have concluded that if the individual is motivated enough

that out external sounds are just cut off they do not interfere with the learning process.

I'd like to point out that these teachers in such situations if you would have

described. Don't have control of the situation at first

glance it might appear that things are not planned and children

are going about quite much on their own as they please but after you

observe while you raise you up as you notice that the teacher has a

central position there and he isn't controlled but of the

situation at all times.

Actually what these people are doing is helping the children develop their creative

abilities and their special talents while in a situation where the teacher

cannot work in such an environment. The teacher may may actually be throwing

blocks in the development of these special talents of

special abilities that these children may possess and I imagine that the type of school

that allows a great deal of freedom flexibility has.

Quite a bit of noise actually is more typical of the

environment that the student will eventually be working on whether it's when he goes

out into the world it would be a rare job in which an individual would be

isolated from all others. So these youngsters are learning how

to work as members of a group and I think if you observe an

average child study get home with the TV

set on or some other noise that would tend to

distract many older people. Young children seem to be able to adjust to this very

well and they do their homework without having

a record player Hi-Fi set or something else interfere with what they're doing.

Obviously our ideal teacher today is going to be a person who is pretty well

adjusted himself. He's not going to be worried about too much or

during having everything just right and just in this place he's not going to be

worried about other adults in the room perhaps observing or assisting. It's going to

be in a way an administrator is me.

Yes and he's going to be a person who feels very secure in himself and if in order for

anyone to feel secure I think he has to know what he's doing and has to have confidence in what

he's doing.

And I think Leo's point is a very good one however that the

teacher is in control of the class. I think in some

cases freedom has been used as an excuse by poor

teachers for their failure to maintain good

discipline. And it's quite easy to say that I have a great deal of freedom in my

room and that's why a students are wandering around and there is a lot of noise.

But I think the noise has to be purposeful and the movement has to be purposeful. So if it

was and and the teacher is unaware of what's happening within the room.

And I think teachers are not doing his job.

I think this ideal teacher must have a knowledge and understanding of the children

with whom he is working. For example the primary teacher must

have a thorough knowledge of the fundamentals of child development and child psychology

of this age group. Likewise the teacher of the third and fourth grade

children must have a thorough knowledge of this child. We might proceed up

the line the junior high school child the senior high school child

days. New teachers must understand them

thoroughly. They must know what motivates them to do what they do and what

type of a learning environment will go will appeal to these youngsters in only

oh there's a term that I like that contributes to that idea.

It doesn't need a teacher really as an educational practitioner

or educational practitioner which means essentially that the

teacher understands the children and accepts them as they are. Now this

is receiving more and more attention because we have learned that the

middle class teacher and most teachers seem to come from a middle class group and our society

finds it difficult to accept lower class if we want to use that

term culturally deprived children with difficulty. The teacher

can't understand some of their attitudes and some of the bad habits by

his standards that they have acquired some of the language that they use

solely the our ideal teacher would be an educational practitioner.

In this sense he would that he would accept children where they are and do whatever he could

to move them along to uncomplicate better habits and to teach them in

terms of where they are now and where they ought to go.

I think in addition to this. Understanding of

children and skill in the areas of human growth and development it is

important to realize that the schools have changed a great deal within the

past few years technologically and that these

technological changes will probably increase at even a faster rate

within the next few years ahead. And as a result of that I

think that it is necessary for a teacher educational institutions to

make certain that the teacher has some understanding of recent

technological changes. For example even within the field of instructional

media or what most of us call audio visual

instruction. The teacher has to be able to use

overhead projectors opaque projectors

tape recorders and some schools even radio closed circuit

TV. And unfortunately in some cases

these new media are being tested in schools and are not satisfactory

and in many cases I think they have proved unsuccessful because the teacher

has not had the knowledge to use the media correctly

rather than any inherent weakness in the media itself.

Well if I were the school principal in describing my ideal teachers I think I would

also. Think of them as teachers who could work

cooperatively as a member of a faculty faculty because it's

in today's schools. You have a lots of activities that call for the

full cooperation of the teachers and working together and

curriculum improvement projects and so forth and I know that if a teacher was a

misfit and couldn't work with her coworkers and so forth or his coworkers

he wouldn't be an ideal teacher in my estimation.

I threw in returning rein to your idea of the various media gear the equipment

that teachers are expected to use.

I have to admit that as a principal of a school boy ultimately gave up on the

house because I have a feeling that this is one of those skills that.

Most teachers at least female teachers are have are

disinclined to acquire or they actually you no matter how hard they try on it

can't acquire the techniques necessary for threading a film and

setting up tapes and things of this nature. So I think here's a

place where some specialized assistance is desirable. So the

teacher who is busy planning what he is going to teach and

preparing his materials doesn't have to worry about setting up the overhead

projector in just the right alignment so that it shows up on the screen

or threading the film in the film strip projector

so that it isn't backward and upside down. And this is a task for

a specialist and sometimes the students in the classroom actually can do this

better than the teacher if they do it habitually and are trained in it.

I agree that certainly there should be an instructional media specialist

available to assist the teachers and I think it is difficult to teach.

Women especially how to use instructional media. However I think

part of that is because nothing is done until the teacher is

middle age or has been out for quite a period of time. I think it's quite easy to

use most instructional media. They don't even have to thread the machines are self threading today

or at least many are. So the teacher could learn to do this without much trouble

if it were included as part of the pre-service educational program.

One thing we haven't said much about is the personality of the teacher.

Personal characteristics certainly at the elementary school level I think being

a friendly warm personality is very desirable and very important.

Well and then as the youngster matures and goes through the higher levels

perhaps he can be handled a little more abruptly

and the personality can be of a different type.

Well I think those Yasm would be very important at all levels of instruction where there'd

be a primary or a senior in college.

This may make the difference and I'm sure you see them as contagious and if

the teacher is m through Z asked it very often the students will also all. Be

contagious. I suppose what we're saying basically is that teachers are.

Should be flexible and able to work in many different situations.

But it's hard to describe the ideal teacher because the ideal teacher

may be ideal for one situation such as elementary school and not for

another school that perhaps allows for greater flexibility. However we do

want teachers to be well-informed terms of their subject matter. To love children and to

be skilled in presenting what they're teaching.

Behind the classroom door produced by W. and I found in

cooperation with the College of Education at Northern Illinois University each week

focuses its attention on one of the many challenging aspects of public school

education. The program is moderated by Dr. Robert F. top

dean of the College of Education at Northern Illinois University. Today's

guest were Dr. Raymond B Fox associate dean of the College of Education.

Dr. Leo Laughlin head of the Department of Administration and services and

Dr. Lloyd Leonard head of the department of elementary education. Next

week's topic will be physical emotional and social changes during the

school years. This program is distributed by the national

educational radio network.