#37

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The topic on this week's Behind the classroom door from northern Illinois University's
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College of Education is the ideal teacher for today's schools.
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Here's the moderator Dean Robert F. top.
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I think one of the important thoughts in connection with the ideal teacher for today's
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schools is the today's schools aspect of this
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discussion because schools have changed so much in the past generation.
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Today of course more people go to school and the
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program in school reflects a change from a rural
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type of society to an urban society. And so we
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moved a long way from the one room rural school. Where the teacher could
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have merely a high school diploma or perhaps a two year
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normal school diploma. And handle the situation quite well.
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Now we have many complex cities that
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require that a teacher have a different type of preparation.
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It seems to me that no teacher no might need as much
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as a master's degree. This is a requirement in some states and the type of
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preparation has to be very different.
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Certainly the teacher in the elementary school today needs to be much better
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qualified than the teacher of 25 or 30 years ago. As you stated
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a generation ago a teacher could begin teaching at the elementary school level with
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a high school diploma and sometimes maybe one summer session
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in a State Normal School. While today the situation is much different.
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For example in my opinion the feel of elementary education is
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so broad that a person with a doctorate majoring in elementary
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education and all levels still wouldn't know all the answers.
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I wonder Lloyd. Aside do you know that within the
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last few years there has been a tendency to push subject matter
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downward. In other words much of the material that normally would have been covered
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at the high school level today is being covered in the elementary schools.
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And if you took one field as an example
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mathematics certainly the content covered in elementary school
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is. Something of a level that normally would have been covered
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in junior high school or even the senior high school level.
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Of course we've learned so much about the psychology of learning
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and child development and I think the preparation of a teacher has had to be
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expanded in these areas as well as in the content areas and an
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elementary teacher particularly in the past at least has not been viewed
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as requiring a high level of preparation. And in fact some school
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district required a Master's for high school teachers but not for elementary school
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teachers.
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It seems to me that we've been using the term degree requirements for the
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teacher rather loosely. We say that a teacher should have a minimum of a
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bachelor's degree or a master's degree or a teacher might even be
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required to have a doctor's degree but you haven't said anything about
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the field of preparation. Teacher on the
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high school level was teaching chemistry. I think a Master's Degree or a
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doctorate in chemistry would be most. Valuable to this
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teacher. But this doctor's degree very well could be in some.
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General aspect of teaching but I think for this teacher of
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chemistry we should insist that degree be in the field of chemistry.
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Well at the same time we can't deny the fact that some of the poorest teaching
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has been done in some of the areas of the sciences because the
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individual teacher didn't have an understanding of adolescent psychology
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tests and measurements and some of the new methods that are being developed foreign languages
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are case in point to where more people have been driven away from the
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study of foreign languages because of the poor approach to the instructional methods
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used.
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What I was getting at was this in so many cases on an E..
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Secondary school allow both an administrator who is hiring a teacher will just look for that
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master's degree he might not care what field it said oh yeah it might not have
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any relationship at all to what he expects his teacher to be doing but
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certainly on a master's degree for a teacher of
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English what would be most valuable if it would be in that field.
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I think it's important that the teacher and the degree in the area where he
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expects to teach or to work we've had in the past.
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A lot of young men decide to choose a degree in school administration.
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These are young men who are teachers and they were looking forward to the possibility of becoming a
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school administrator. And so instead of thanking their masters as you've indicated
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Leo in their area of teaching they moved into administration took
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a master's degree in administration and then only a small percentage of them were
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actually obtained assignments in school administration because there aren't
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many such jobs compared to the number of jobs teaching. So we
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discovered large numbers of young men teaching science for
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example with a master's degree in school administration.
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I suppose if you're talking about a total faculty it perhaps would be better
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to have a balanced faculty at Edwards. Some of the people who would have the type of
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preparation that Leo magine. With advanced
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degrees in content fields but certainly on the total faculty it would be good
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to have someone for example who would have a master's degree in
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curriculum somebody else who has a master's degree instructional
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techniques someone in instructional media
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so that I think it's quite difficult. Talk about a total school in terms of
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the individual teacher. I also think that in terms of our topic for
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today the ideal teacher is
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rather hard to define because I think the important thing is that
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a student should come in contact with as many different types of teachers as
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possible during a school day or at least during his school life
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so that some teachers may be ideal for certain students
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and other teachers who are quite different.
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Maybe ideal teachers for a different group of students but before we
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leave and I think probably we can leave the preparation to teachers it seems to me
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that we have to recognize. That the preparation of a
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teacher whether he's the ideal teacher or not. I suspect there is no ideal
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teacher should involve content preparation Surely he must
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know his subject matter quite well and at least know where he can find some
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answers in preparation for the next day's class because we discover that you don't
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remember all of these facts that you are and in your youth you learned in your earlier degrees
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you must have a general education that makes him a cultured
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citizen one who can communicate well with
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his with adults and children alike. And then he must have some of
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the methods and some of the tools of teaching.
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And here I think we're negligent in areas like tests and
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measurements. Where it is very important that every teacher
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regardless of his subject matter understanding testing techniques in his
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particular area and furthermore that he understand how to interpret and use
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standardized test results which are part of his knowledge and
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identifying children's needs and helping plan their future.
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Well I certainly would agree that he must know those things and many more
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things about the realities of teaching and learning. For example today we
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talk a lot about recognizing differences in learners in
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school. And believe it or not some teachers do not
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recognize that different children learn in different ways and at different rates and
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so forth. And then we have this problem of providing a learning environment where what
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I might call a favorable environment for learning in a school
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and again some teachers if they're if they're not properly let's say
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prepared for the jobs they may not recognize the importance of this.
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Well Ray you know your comment that where we're glad to have
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children in contact with a wide range of personality types if you will
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among their teachers is true.
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There is a wide range of personalities that can be successful as teachers
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and they might be ideal for some of the students whereas another type of personality would
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be ideal for another group of students.
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On the other hand I think there are some individuals who
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because of you know heritage traits or perhaps
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environmental influences that cause them to relate in a different way to people for
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example. We should not be in the classroom not of our own experience we have
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known individuals who just lacked lets say leadership ability and
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somehow or other they couldn't gain this no matter how hard they tried. Beginning Teacher
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frequently staggers and stumbles with the problem of college discipline our control
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and recovers. The second year this teacher enters a classroom with a different attitude.
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But there are some people who just don't have it and they can't get it. And then I think
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also of communication. Some individuals words just don't seem to
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come out the way others can understand them. And so there are some people
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who shouldn't continue in teaching or shouldn't enter teaching and I suppose it's our job to
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try to identify these.
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I think that what you're saying is true however the. Role of the
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teacher in many schools is changing so that the teacher does not have
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to be good in all areas. I think in the past we've expected teachers to be good
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lecturers to be good in leading small group discussions to
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be good in counseling youngsters to be good in test and measurements.
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In other words to be good in too many fields. And the idea of
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differentiating a staff in which you have team members
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composed in other words a team composed of such people as an outstanding
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lecturer. Other people whose skills tend to be in human relations work
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well with small groups some people who know much more about test and
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measurements and are responsible for supervising teachers in constructing
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test items are changes within the school that I
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think will enable us to utilize people with a vast array of
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talents and abilities to a much greater degree than we have in the past.
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I also think that some of our certification requirements have been aimed at
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keeping people out of the profession rather than encouraging
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individuals who have abilities with along certain
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lines to come into the profession.
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At the same time every teacher it seems to me has
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got to have certain. Qualities certain abilities you
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just I don't think you can be a good teacher if you don't like young
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people. I don't think you can be a good teacher if you don't
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recognize the fact that these people before you are in the process of
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becoming in you're there to help them. And I sense in some teachers
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the idea that they're there to eliminate those weaker ones flunk them
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out. And I just think that there is this is not the
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attitude or the position that a teacher can take in this regard.
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Well I'd certainly like to pursue this idea this topic of discipline a little more
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because certainly an ideal teacher is one who has a good
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environment in the classroom one who doesn't have a lot of trouble with discipline.
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And I know that in the school of yesterday many times teachers maintain
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let's say discipline through control. I maintain discipline I'd
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say and control through fear let's say in a part of the children while
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today we wouldn't consider that as an ideal teacher at all.
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And of course in those days good discipline was sit still and be quiet all the time we
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were asking something impossible of the kids.
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I think it is important to realize how the concept of good
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discipline has changed. I recently visited a school
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that had no walls so that all of the elementary grades
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were together with it actually in separate parts of a large
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learning center that also served as the library.
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And when I first walked into this building I was amazed by
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the level of noise which was very great by the freedom the
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children had to move throughout the entire learning complex. And yet
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as I observed what the children were doing I saw children do things that
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amazed me. For example a second grade youngster got up and left his
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group walked over to the audiovisual part of the learning center.
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Found a filmstrip that he was looking for took it over.
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Put it into a film star projector and ram a film star projector himself
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and a youngster in the second grade. I might say we have some faculty members who
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have difficulty running the filmstrip projectors who have been teaching for many
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many years.
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If that describes I think the change in our attitude toward discipline we want
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children not to be disciplined externally but to gain freedom the more
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freedom they can have the better to direct their own learning in their activities and their behavior.
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And someday we're going to have this worked out so that children do more of this.
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RAY It seems to me that this type of teacher that would fit into a situation like you've
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just described would would be rather unusual. I can't see
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this teacher being a beginner. It would seem to me that this teacher
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would have to. I have had much experience prior to this.
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This type of situation.
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I talked Leo with the director of the program and director said that they
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actually have had greater success with people who have had experience
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but limited experience that individuals who had taught for several years
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tended to get into a pattern of teaching within a conventional classroom.
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And although there were exceptions to this that in general when those people tried to
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teach in the open complex constantly being observed by
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visitors by other teachers they had great difficulty in
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adjusting to that type of freedom or flecked actually flexibility
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would be better word I think than freedom but.
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Many of their teachers tended to be quite new and fact some
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were beginning teachers but most were people who had talked to three years.
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Somewhere in that category I think I would agree with you re. I don't think that
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these need to be older long experienced teachers. I think in the
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preparing of teachers if we can give them experiences in schools like the one you
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described and let them do their student teaching in the schools like
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that they will be more ready to step right into a situation like that than a teacher
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who has been teaching for 20 or 30 years.
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You know your mentioning of the hop up and the noise in the movement in that room
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is something that is characteristic of many a hard working
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situation. It does happen in a regular classroom you can walk into
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a regular classroom regular in the sense that it is one room
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one class one group of 25 youngsters or so and a skillful
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teacher will have these learning areas and there will be a lot of movement and a lot of wiggling
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going on and to the observer. You may think well how can the children concentrate
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because user group over in the corner is working on something that requires their reading to
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each other perhaps. Here's another group working with the audio visual equipment. Well if
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they do it and they do it very well. In fact they've carried on a few experiments in this
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regard me and have concluded that if the individual is motivated enough
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that out external sounds are just cut off they do not interfere with the learning process.
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I'd like to point out that these teachers in such situations if you would have
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described. Don't have control of the situation at first
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glance it might appear that things are not planned and children
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are going about quite much on their own as they please but after you
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observe while you raise you up as you notice that the teacher has a
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central position there and he isn't controlled but of the
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situation at all times.
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Actually what these people are doing is helping the children develop their creative
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abilities and their special talents while in a situation where the teacher
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cannot work in such an environment. The teacher may may actually be throwing
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blocks in the development of these special talents of
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special abilities that these children may possess and I imagine that the type of school
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that allows a great deal of freedom flexibility has.
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Quite a bit of noise actually is more typical of the
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environment that the student will eventually be working on whether it's when he goes
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out into the world it would be a rare job in which an individual would be
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isolated from all others. So these youngsters are learning how
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to work as members of a group and I think if you observe an
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average child study get home with the TV
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set on or some other noise that would tend to
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distract many older people. Young children seem to be able to adjust to this very
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well and they do their homework without having
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a record player Hi-Fi set or something else interfere with what they're doing.
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Obviously our ideal teacher today is going to be a person who is pretty well
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adjusted himself. He's not going to be worried about too much or
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during having everything just right and just in this place he's not going to be
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worried about other adults in the room perhaps observing or assisting. It's going to
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be in a way an administrator is me.
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Yes and he's going to be a person who feels very secure in himself and if in order for
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anyone to feel secure I think he has to know what he's doing and has to have confidence in what
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he's doing.
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And I think Leo's point is a very good one however that the
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teacher is in control of the class. I think in some
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cases freedom has been used as an excuse by poor
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teachers for their failure to maintain good
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discipline. And it's quite easy to say that I have a great deal of freedom in my
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room and that's why a students are wandering around and there is a lot of noise.
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But I think the noise has to be purposeful and the movement has to be purposeful. So if it
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was and and the teacher is unaware of what's happening within the room.
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And I think teachers are not doing his job.
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I think this ideal teacher must have a knowledge and understanding of the children
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with whom he is working. For example the primary teacher must
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have a thorough knowledge of the fundamentals of child development and child psychology
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of this age group. Likewise the teacher of the third and fourth grade
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children must have a thorough knowledge of this child. We might proceed up
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the line the junior high school child the senior high school child
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days. New teachers must understand them
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thoroughly. They must know what motivates them to do what they do and what
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type of a learning environment will go will appeal to these youngsters in only
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oh there's a term that I like that contributes to that idea.
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It doesn't need a teacher really as an educational practitioner
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or educational practitioner which means essentially that the
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teacher understands the children and accepts them as they are. Now this
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is receiving more and more attention because we have learned that the
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middle class teacher and most teachers seem to come from a middle class group and our society
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finds it difficult to accept lower class if we want to use that
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term culturally deprived children with difficulty. The teacher
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can't understand some of their attitudes and some of the bad habits by
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his standards that they have acquired some of the language that they use
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solely the our ideal teacher would be an educational practitioner.
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In this sense he would that he would accept children where they are and do whatever he could
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to move them along to uncomplicate better habits and to teach them in
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terms of where they are now and where they ought to go.
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I think in addition to this. Understanding of
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children and skill in the areas of human growth and development it is
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important to realize that the schools have changed a great deal within the
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past few years technologically and that these
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technological changes will probably increase at even a faster rate
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within the next few years ahead. And as a result of that I
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think that it is necessary for a teacher educational institutions to
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make certain that the teacher has some understanding of recent
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technological changes. For example even within the field of instructional
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media or what most of us call audio visual
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instruction. The teacher has to be able to use
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overhead projectors opaque projectors
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tape recorders and some schools even radio closed circuit
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TV. And unfortunately in some cases
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these new media are being tested in schools and are not satisfactory
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and in many cases I think they have proved unsuccessful because the teacher
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has not had the knowledge to use the media correctly
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rather than any inherent weakness in the media itself.
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Well if I were the school principal in describing my ideal teachers I think I would
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also. Think of them as teachers who could work
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cooperatively as a member of a faculty faculty because it's
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in today's schools. You have a lots of activities that call for the
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full cooperation of the teachers and working together and
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curriculum improvement projects and so forth and I know that if a teacher was a
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misfit and couldn't work with her coworkers and so forth or his coworkers
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he wouldn't be an ideal teacher in my estimation.
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I threw in returning rein to your idea of the various media gear the equipment
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that teachers are expected to use.
[24:43 - 24:48]
I have to admit that as a principal of a school boy ultimately gave up on the
[24:48 - 24:52]
house because I have a feeling that this is one of those skills that.
[24:52 - 24:58]
Most teachers at least female teachers are have are
[24:58 - 25:02]
disinclined to acquire or they actually you no matter how hard they try on it
[25:02 - 25:08]
can't acquire the techniques necessary for threading a film and
[25:08 - 25:12]
setting up tapes and things of this nature. So I think here's a
[25:12 - 25:17]
place where some specialized assistance is desirable. So the
[25:17 - 25:22]
teacher who is busy planning what he is going to teach and
[25:22 - 25:27]
preparing his materials doesn't have to worry about setting up the overhead
[25:27 - 25:31]
projector in just the right alignment so that it shows up on the screen
[25:31 - 25:36]
or threading the film in the film strip projector
[25:36 - 25:41]
so that it isn't backward and upside down. And this is a task for
[25:41 - 25:46]
a specialist and sometimes the students in the classroom actually can do this
[25:46 - 25:49]
better than the teacher if they do it habitually and are trained in it.
[25:49 - 25:54]
I agree that certainly there should be an instructional media specialist
[25:54 - 25:58]
available to assist the teachers and I think it is difficult to teach.
[25:58 - 26:04]
Women especially how to use instructional media. However I think
[26:04 - 26:09]
part of that is because nothing is done until the teacher is
[26:09 - 26:14]
middle age or has been out for quite a period of time. I think it's quite easy to
[26:14 - 26:19]
use most instructional media. They don't even have to thread the machines are self threading today
[26:19 - 26:24]
or at least many are. So the teacher could learn to do this without much trouble
[26:24 - 26:28]
if it were included as part of the pre-service educational program.
[26:28 - 26:33]
One thing we haven't said much about is the personality of the teacher.
[26:33 - 26:39]
Personal characteristics certainly at the elementary school level I think being
[26:39 - 26:44]
a friendly warm personality is very desirable and very important.
[26:44 - 26:50]
Well and then as the youngster matures and goes through the higher levels
[26:50 - 26:55]
perhaps he can be handled a little more abruptly
[26:55 - 26:57]
and the personality can be of a different type.
[26:57 - 27:02]
Well I think those Yasm would be very important at all levels of instruction where there'd
[27:02 - 27:05]
be a primary or a senior in college.
[27:05 - 27:10]
This may make the difference and I'm sure you see them as contagious and if
[27:10 - 27:15]
the teacher is m through Z asked it very often the students will also all. Be
[27:15 - 27:20]
contagious. I suppose what we're saying basically is that teachers are.
[27:20 - 27:25]
Should be flexible and able to work in many different situations.
[27:25 - 27:29]
But it's hard to describe the ideal teacher because the ideal teacher
[27:29 - 27:35]
may be ideal for one situation such as elementary school and not for
[27:35 - 27:40]
another school that perhaps allows for greater flexibility. However we do
[27:40 - 27:45]
want teachers to be well-informed terms of their subject matter. To love children and to
[27:45 - 27:48]
be skilled in presenting what they're teaching.
[27:48 - 27:53]
Behind the classroom door produced by W. and I found in
[27:53 - 27:58]
cooperation with the College of Education at Northern Illinois University each week
[27:58 - 28:03]
focuses its attention on one of the many challenging aspects of public school
[28:03 - 28:07]
education. The program is moderated by Dr. Robert F. top
[28:07 - 28:12]
dean of the College of Education at Northern Illinois University. Today's
[28:12 - 28:17]
guest were Dr. Raymond B Fox associate dean of the College of Education.
[28:17 - 28:22]
Dr. Leo Laughlin head of the Department of Administration and services and
[28:22 - 28:27]
Dr. Lloyd Leonard head of the department of elementary education. Next
[28:27 - 28:32]
week's topic will be physical emotional and social changes during the
[28:32 - 28:36]
school years. This program is distributed by the national
[28:36 - 28:38]
educational radio network.