- Series
- Down to the sea
- Air Date
- Duration
- 00:30:00
- Episode Description
- Series Description
- Subject(s)
- Creator(s)
- Contributors
- Genre(s)
- Geographic Region(s)
- regions
- Time Period
- 1971-1980
[00:12 - 00:17]
Some people have calculated it very soon that we were poisoned.
[00:17 - 00:20]
Frank and I.
[00:20 - 00:25]
Chose a lack of oxygen and he's basically
[00:25 - 00:29]
told absolutely so vital necessity
[00:29 - 00:34]
of the scene against too much pollution.
[00:34 - 00:38]
The voice of Captain Jacques gusto with the warning that man must heed
[00:38 - 00:43]
the pollution of the ocean is the topic of this edition of the program series
[00:43 - 00:45]
down to the sea.
[00:45 - 01:07]
For our program on pollution we talked to Captain Castillo a household name in the
[01:07 - 01:12]
area of Oceanography. To Congressman Bob Wilson of San Diego and somewhat of an
[01:12 - 01:17]
amateur oceanographer himself and to one of the world's leading authorities on ocean
[01:17 - 01:21]
pollution. Dr. Willard J north of the California Institute of Technology's Marine
[01:21 - 01:26]
Science Laboratory. We first asked Dr North to define pollution of the
[01:26 - 01:28]
ocean.
[01:28 - 01:32]
I think that. Pollution as defined
[01:32 - 01:37]
by the state of California as a fair trial notation in that
[01:37 - 01:41]
product and it's the state shows that it's unreasonable
[01:41 - 01:45]
interference with a beneficial year.
[01:45 - 01:52]
I don't people define pollution as.
[01:52 - 01:57]
Any alteration whatsoever. Caused by man
[01:57 - 02:03]
and. The planet environment. This.
[02:03 - 02:07]
Is perhaps a little too restrictive I think.
[02:07 - 02:11]
However when a sewage discharge of oil or dust real
[02:11 - 02:16]
pollution and factories are squashed into the ocean or
[02:16 - 02:21]
that that's not forms of pollution granted but what other types are there.
[02:21 - 02:25]
Well. There's a lot gets into the
[02:25 - 02:31]
ocean from the atmosphere. And we put a
[02:31 - 02:35]
lot of our waste into the atmosphere that eventually find their way into the
[02:35 - 02:41]
ocean a good example of this is the lat we use bad in our.
[02:41 - 02:48]
Gasolines in the form of the ingredient. After all they.
[02:48 - 02:51]
Are technically known as tetraethyl bad.
[02:51 - 02:56]
And there's a molecule of lead and if. And when
[02:56 - 03:01]
the gasoline is burned in an internal combustion engine This lad
[03:01 - 03:05]
is favorite. Charged the atmosphere
[03:05 - 03:12]
from there and carry. I wins out over the
[03:12 - 03:19]
ocean. Some of it dissolves into the sea that you find in.
[03:19 - 03:23]
The remotest parts of the earth.
[03:23 - 03:28]
In the Antarctic after in Greenland in the middle of the Pacific at the greatest that
[03:28 - 03:29]
it's everywhere.
[03:29 - 03:33]
But when one drives a car using ethanol what is polluting the ocean.
[03:33 - 03:36]
That's right a little better.
[03:36 - 03:41]
Dr. North went on to explain how a scientific investigation has provided us with
[03:41 - 03:46]
reliable information about the presence of lead in the sea or around us.
[03:46 - 03:50]
This was done by Dr Clare Patterson at the California Institute of
[03:50 - 03:55]
Technology. He was quite interested in
[03:55 - 03:59]
seeing how the average level of lead
[03:59 - 04:01]
in the environment.
[04:01 - 04:09]
Behaved. As a function of time.
[04:09 - 04:14]
And he wanted to know what it was like how concentrated
[04:14 - 04:17]
lead was in the environment before man
[04:17 - 04:23]
really. Developed technology.
[04:23 - 04:28]
As intensively as we have so he has taken water
[04:28 - 04:33]
from. Glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica.
[04:33 - 04:38]
And analyzed them for their land content. And
[04:38 - 04:43]
found very low levels and he was able to date
[04:43 - 04:48]
these. Samples so that he knew very accurately
[04:48 - 04:53]
at. What time this water became frozen and the
[04:53 - 04:57]
glaciers. Doing this. For
[04:57 - 05:02]
more recent waters he found that the level of the ad
[05:02 - 05:08]
took a rather moderate. Increase. I believe
[05:08 - 05:13]
it was just shortly before the birth of Christ and it was at this time that the
[05:13 - 05:18]
Romans do go up the technology of smelting lead to.
[05:18 - 05:23]
Use in. Construction lad
[05:23 - 05:28]
smelling is continued down in Europe down through the
[05:28 - 05:33]
years and. Looking at Paterson's curse the
[05:33 - 05:38]
light goes. And continues to rise slowly.
[05:38 - 05:43]
But you see a very dramatic increase.
[05:43 - 05:48]
Shortly after the invention of the automobile and the use of tetraethyl
[05:48 - 05:53]
that. Became common and the amount of
[05:53 - 05:56]
light in the environment has just skyrocketed since then.
[05:56 - 05:59]
Now what does this mean that we actually notice this particularly
[05:59 - 06:01]
well.
[06:01 - 06:09]
I'm really thinking about the effects on human beings and the animals and
[06:09 - 06:13]
plants that inhabit the earth with us. It's a very hard question to
[06:13 - 06:18]
answer with. Many of these universal pollutants
[06:18 - 06:23]
because we don't have. What we call a
[06:23 - 06:28]
control. And it is we can't find people now
[06:28 - 06:32]
who don't have land at high levels in their body.
[06:32 - 06:37]
So that we have no. Population that is lead
[06:37 - 06:40]
free with which to compare.
[06:40 - 06:45]
A. Common man. You know there's growing
[06:45 - 06:49]
concern about the. Massive use of insecticides.
[06:49 - 06:52]
Many of the same problems would apply here.
[06:52 - 06:57]
Yes we're we're running into some very serious problems and quite
[06:57 - 07:01]
interestingly of all of. These.
[07:01 - 07:06]
So-called hard pesticides were developed in the western world it
[07:06 - 07:10]
turns out that they're being. Used.
[07:10 - 07:18]
Very intensively and some of the glass or parts of the world or
[07:18 - 07:24]
controlling some of the things like the malaria mosquito and the yellow
[07:24 - 07:28]
fever mosquitoes so forth here we use them primarily
[07:28 - 07:33]
against I recall Joe Pass. And to some extent we can dispense
[07:33 - 07:38]
with them. The trouble with. The hard past is I
[07:38 - 07:43]
just that. They're so toxic that. Nothing
[07:43 - 07:47]
can attack them. Right now. Most Wace
[07:47 - 07:54]
come from. Civilisation are degraded in one way or
[07:54 - 07:58]
another or usually by bacteria. But they hide past the
[07:58 - 08:03]
sides don't degrade. And they just accumulate in the
[08:03 - 08:05]
environment.
[08:05 - 08:10]
We went on to ask about the known effects of pesticides and other pollutants on the wildlife
[08:10 - 08:15]
of the sea. For instance the pelican that has been such a common bird along the California
[08:15 - 08:17]
coast until recently.
[08:17 - 08:22]
We have what are called food chains. Rather simple
[08:22 - 08:27]
organisms like planets and plankton. Get eaten by
[08:27 - 08:32]
larger animals. Say for instance sardines. And
[08:32 - 08:34]
the sardines are in there.
[08:34 - 08:41]
In the course of the food chain by some larger fish
[08:41 - 08:43]
and maybe a pelican.
[08:43 - 08:48]
Eats the larger fish I have each. Passage
[08:48 - 08:50]
along the food chain.
[08:50 - 08:56]
That DDT rather pesticide gets concentrated the.
[08:56 - 09:01]
Sardine will take the DDT. Out of the.
[09:01 - 09:05]
Plankton. And it will go into its fatty
[09:05 - 09:11]
tissues and stay there and then. The.
[09:11 - 09:16]
Sardine like screen. Most of the plankton actors
[09:16 - 09:21]
metabolize them. But it will continue eating
[09:21 - 09:26]
plankton and keeping the DDT in its body. DDT
[09:26 - 09:30]
never gets excrete it so it just builds up there. So that
[09:30 - 09:36]
eventually you find that the concentration of DDT in the in the sardine is
[09:36 - 09:40]
much higher than it is in the plankton. Likewise the
[09:40 - 09:45]
larger fish that eats the sardine. Concentrates.
[09:45 - 09:52]
The DDT again you find that the level is 5 or 10 times higher
[09:52 - 09:57]
and in that predator than it is in a sardine.
[09:57 - 10:02]
The bridge tend to be quite high up in these food chains. So that we find
[10:02 - 10:05]
extraordinarily high levels in them.
[10:05 - 10:12]
The carnivorous burns like pelicans sell for eagles.
[10:12 - 10:17]
Get lots of DDT. Appears to interfere
[10:17 - 10:23]
with the formation of the shell in the egg.
[10:23 - 10:28]
And. So that the birds lay eggs that are.
[10:28 - 10:33]
Very thin shells and chances for Michele breaking during the
[10:33 - 10:38]
incubation period is very high. Some
[10:38 - 10:43]
cases virtually I want 100 percent certainty. For
[10:43 - 10:48]
instance I believe the pelican is the state bird of Louisiana are
[10:48 - 10:50]
there any pelicans there.
[10:50 - 10:58]
Karl Hobbs of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography has told me that he
[10:58 - 11:03]
examined. Power like an ass and found that.
[11:03 - 11:09]
The eggs are. Very faint shalwar are breaking.
[11:09 - 11:13]
Way down in Baja California.
[11:13 - 11:18]
Presumably because of a lack of Agriculture there's
[11:18 - 11:23]
very little actual from the land but it's must be
[11:23 - 11:25]
moving south and the ocean currents.
[11:25 - 11:30]
Well this brings up another question what about the spread
[11:30 - 11:36]
for forms of pollution in the ocean itself how far can a pollutant spread.
[11:36 - 11:42]
It depends on the polluted sewage. Probably a.
[11:42 - 11:47]
Few miles at most. But. Some of the. More
[11:47 - 11:52]
persistent. Things like that. Occur on a
[11:52 - 11:57]
worldwide basis they find DDT in the body to lose out in the
[11:57 - 11:59]
middle of the Pacific Ocean.
[11:59 - 12:04]
They find a lead in the Arctic waters and we
[12:04 - 12:09]
question Dr. north about the reports we had seen concerning bear on the undersea deserts and
[12:09 - 12:13]
some of our harbors not just in harbors.
[12:13 - 12:19]
Several places along our coast there. Undersea desert
[12:19 - 12:24]
once were very light here. This.
[12:24 - 12:29]
Results primarily from our.
[12:29 - 12:34]
Ignorance of the way of life in this city.
[12:34 - 12:41]
In many cases the losses. Could have been prevented.
[12:41 - 12:44]
With our present day now right.
[12:44 - 12:49]
Pollution is a much used word today and yet the word is no newer than the problem
[12:49 - 12:54]
in the March 969 issue of oceans magazine. There appeared a colorful
[12:54 - 12:59]
quote that described the condition of the river water in the city of London some 270
[12:59 - 13:00]
years ago.
[13:00 - 13:05]
The publication titled hints to Brewers said in the year 17 0 to
[13:05 - 13:11]
Thames Water taken up about Greenwich at low water when it is free from all brackish unus of
[13:11 - 13:16]
the sea and has in it all the fact and so leads from this great city of London
[13:16 - 13:21]
makes a very strong drink it will of itself or meant wonderfully and
[13:21 - 13:25]
afterwards do purgation and three times thinking it will be so strong that
[13:25 - 13:30]
several Sea commanders have told me that it has often put their mother the nurse.
[13:30 - 14:48]
It seems impossible that man could succeed in polluting the vast world ocean that
[14:48 - 14:53]
covers 70 percent of this planet. We posed this question to Congressman
[14:53 - 14:56]
Bob Wilson of San Diego.
[14:56 - 15:00]
Well it's been proved that it's possible not just with oil leaks
[15:00 - 15:06]
but such things as DDT and other chemicals that
[15:06 - 15:11]
come from manufacturing activities close to shore or in the Great Lakes
[15:11 - 15:16]
area particularly they call I like your you the Dead Sea now because the
[15:16 - 15:20]
fish disappeared because of so much pollution draining it off the industrial areas
[15:20 - 15:25]
around that. This is a disgrace it's a national disgrace
[15:25 - 15:30]
and many people are particularly legislators nationally are
[15:30 - 15:35]
proposing federal controls a more stringent regulation
[15:35 - 15:40]
more research and development in the methods of. Controlling
[15:40 - 15:45]
pollution and I believe these methods are going to actually save the
[15:45 - 15:50]
country and the citizens money rather than costing them money. What immediate steps are being
[15:50 - 15:54]
taken to help in this problem of pollution at sea. Well of course
[15:54 - 15:58]
the Department of Interior through the Bureau of Fisheries and through there
[15:58 - 16:05]
there are other active ocean related activities are taking second looks on the
[16:05 - 16:08]
leasing of oil rights and so forth offshore
[16:08 - 16:14]
ensuring certain protective measures which should have been put into effect a
[16:14 - 16:19]
long time ago. They are doing many things to
[16:19 - 16:24]
to improve it but until we actually get some tough laws
[16:24 - 16:30]
on manufacturing waste. Saying that they're
[16:30 - 16:35]
not dumped into streams which eventually wind their way into the ocean we're going to
[16:35 - 16:40]
end up with tremendous cost in trying
[16:40 - 16:45]
to replenish the marine life and to make
[16:45 - 16:50]
this dream is in the waters of our nation. From a recreational standpoint
[16:50 - 16:56]
and from a from a health standpoint more as they were a couple hundred years ago.
[16:56 - 17:01]
Pollution can take many forms in the sea and cause many different problems.
[17:01 - 17:06]
Some like massive oil leaks are easy to see and cause great public concern and
[17:06 - 17:11]
rightfully so. But other results of ocean pollution are not so obvious to the
[17:11 - 17:16]
layman. Dr. North has conducted a great deal of research into one of the problems
[17:16 - 17:21]
caused by excessive sewage outfall the disturbance of the delicate ecology of the
[17:21 - 17:27]
ocean floor that has resulted in the destruction of life supporting kelp beds.
[17:27 - 17:31]
I. Myself am concerned that if they are getting
[17:31 - 17:36]
account restored to. Certain areas in Southern California where it
[17:36 - 17:41]
disappeared. Plants. Form the
[17:41 - 17:46]
tall. Structures there correspond to
[17:46 - 17:51]
trees. And forests of giant
[17:51 - 17:55]
kelp under water just like forests on land there.
[17:55 - 18:01]
Very rich in plant life and animal life. And.
[18:01 - 18:06]
In fact. Many ecologists who considered him
[18:06 - 18:11]
to be. One of the three or four types of communities that
[18:11 - 18:17]
form the richest. Centers of life.
[18:17 - 18:22]
And found anywhere on the earth. They compare for instance with coral reefs and
[18:22 - 18:27]
tropical rainforests. As being.
[18:27 - 18:33]
Outstanding examples of. Rich communities.
[18:33 - 18:38]
In Southern California. We had. Kelp beds.
[18:38 - 18:44]
Very important and significant ones disappear.
[18:44 - 18:49]
Starting at about 1935. The
[18:49 - 18:54]
kelp beds that used to be out near Los Angeles. The powerhouse for
[18:54 - 18:57]
east coast began to dwindle.
[18:57 - 19:02]
And there was not a single plant left. Same thing started about
[19:02 - 19:07]
940 here in San Diego. If you go down and look at
[19:07 - 19:12]
one of these kelp beds as the. Plants are growing why you find
[19:12 - 19:18]
that there's a small grazing organism in the sea urchin.
[19:18 - 19:23]
It occurs naturally in kelp beds. Appears to have.
[19:23 - 19:29]
Gotten out of control and is there in millions and millions just armies.
[19:29 - 19:34]
Moving slowly along the bottom like locusts on land destroying vegetation
[19:34 - 19:41]
sea urchin eats everything in its path.
[19:41 - 19:42]
After.
[19:42 - 19:47]
The. Plants and animals are gone why there's nothing
[19:47 - 19:52]
there to see or juice they reign supreme and prevent anything
[19:52 - 19:55]
else from developing near the sewer outfall of
[19:55 - 19:58]
the.
[19:58 - 20:03]
Urchins. Stay there. Populations persist and
[20:03 - 20:08]
nothing returns. We think that probably there's a nutritional
[20:08 - 20:13]
relationship between sewage and sheer chance. Dr.
[20:13 - 20:18]
Mary Clark of San Diego State College as a matter of fact about.
[20:18 - 20:23]
This the best evidence we have on this. First we
[20:23 - 20:28]
thought that the urchins might be picking up the little Swiss. Solid
[20:28 - 20:33]
material settles out here so I was but. Dr.
[20:33 - 20:38]
quiet showed that the urchins with all their spines and two feet presented an
[20:38 - 20:42]
enormous surface to the water and I think an absorbed dissolved
[20:42 - 20:47]
organic matter very efficiently. And in fact.
[20:47 - 20:52]
And started. Even to read about concentrations that
[20:52 - 20:57]
exists around Sioux Falls they can take up enough to
[20:57 - 21:02]
probably make a living or to keep from total starvation
[21:02 - 21:07]
because they have the surface area they can make it live there.
[21:07 - 21:12]
And prevent other things from coming back. Essentially they
[21:12 - 21:17]
live in soup 100 years ago this probably didn't happen.
[21:17 - 21:21]
Because we had an animal along our coast and exterminated
[21:21 - 21:26]
in the hundreds and that animal was the sea otters. And sea otters
[21:26 - 21:31]
eat Syrians. But now we don't have any animal
[21:31 - 21:36]
that is very efficient at killing sea urchins. So we've
[21:36 - 21:41]
gotten. Into the problem of. The kelp beds disappearing and
[21:41 - 21:45]
coming back. Hundred Years
[21:45 - 21:50]
ago the current bench probably never disappeared. The first insult was
[21:50 - 21:55]
destroying this sea otter the second insult was. Providing
[21:55 - 22:00]
with sewage which kept the urchins alive. And now
[22:00 - 22:04]
you know where to restart the count beds. We find we have to
[22:04 - 22:09]
man has to step in and fill an ecological role of the sea otter and
[22:09 - 22:14]
we go out and kill these. Certain number of these urchins
[22:14 - 22:19]
to reduce their. Concentration to the point where kelp can come back and it
[22:19 - 22:24]
works. And 1963 we started trying to
[22:24 - 22:28]
restore the kelp bed at Point Loma here in San Diego.
[22:28 - 22:32]
And. There were only a few hundred plants left.
[22:32 - 22:40]
Now there are probably about. 10 million plans.
[22:40 - 22:43]
And we. Probably are.
[22:43 - 22:48]
Many millions in sea urchins at. That time and gradually been
[22:48 - 22:51]
able to bring that back. It's.
[22:51 - 22:56]
It's now about two thirds restored and in destroying some of these sea
[22:56 - 23:00]
urchins you're not disturbing nature's balance you're restarting it.
[23:00 - 23:05]
That what it amounts to this is every indication that we have points in this
[23:05 - 23:11]
direction. He's. Areas dominated by urchins are.
[23:11 - 23:16]
Really barren desert except for the urchins they have a few animals
[23:16 - 23:21]
here and there but they're. They're really impoverished and after we get the
[23:21 - 23:25]
kelp back Kwai swarms of fishes and all kinds of
[23:25 - 23:30]
creatures that feed on the caliper and live in the cow come back in.
[23:30 - 23:37]
Obviously. Thousands of times more life in the area.
[23:37 - 23:40]
And as a result of these activities.
[23:40 - 23:43]
You haven't noticed any ill effects so far we haven't.
[23:43 - 23:48]
While. There is one fact and that is that times count
[23:48 - 23:53]
washes in the tangles betas get tangled in it. That's about
[23:53 - 23:55]
the only one that we've.
[23:55 - 23:59]
Just how are these kelp beds particularly beneficial to us right there.
[23:59 - 24:05]
Well they're beneficial in a number of ways. We.
[24:05 - 24:09]
We fish camp beds very intensively for our fish and
[24:09 - 24:14]
lobster abalone. Both commercial and recreational
[24:14 - 24:20]
fishing. And then the kelp beds are harvested.
[24:20 - 24:25]
The tops are cut off it doesn't. Particularly hurt the plants.
[24:25 - 24:31]
And chemicals are extracted from the kelp fact we.
[24:31 - 24:36]
Probably all of us eat kelp two or three times a day without realizing it and
[24:36 - 24:41]
the. Chemicals are used in the ice cream
[24:41 - 24:46]
salad dressings in toothpaste pharmaceuticals.
[24:46 - 24:51]
We keep where a little bit of kelp on our bodies because
[24:51 - 24:56]
kelp chemicals are used in the manufacture of dyes and
[24:56 - 25:01]
textiles. And we paint a was probably a little kelp in the
[25:01 - 25:02]
pain.
[25:02 - 25:07]
Millions of tons of waste materials are being dumped into the sea. How much
[25:07 - 25:12]
waste can the sea handle. Will we be required to sacrifice the sea floor to
[25:12 - 25:14]
take care of our garbage.
[25:14 - 25:19]
Captain Jack gusto if we are aware I trace sacrificing completed this he thought
[25:19 - 25:22]
our father saw the purpose of being a wastebasket.
[25:22 - 25:29]
We don't realize that we are depending on the sea to such an extent that we
[25:29 - 25:34]
would not survive such a thing. So it is a duty to
[25:34 - 25:39]
preserve the sea for our own preservation. Some people have
[25:39 - 25:44]
calculated that very soon. If we were poisoning the plankton life
[25:44 - 25:50]
in the sea it would choke by lack of oxygen.
[25:50 - 25:54]
And this is basically so it is absolutely a
[25:54 - 25:59]
survival necessity to preserve the scene against too much
[25:59 - 26:04]
pollution. Now when we say for
[26:04 - 26:08]
example that we must preserve the sea does not mean that some
[26:08 - 26:13]
forms of using the sea as you know septic are for waste if it is properly done in
[26:13 - 26:18]
a cleaner way. It can be done but. Let's say for
[26:18 - 26:23]
example we do not hesitate to dehydrate but a dose. I don't understand why we do
[26:23 - 26:28]
where would they stay to D-I going to waste and put it in a package for
[26:28 - 26:33]
which would not but you see it would cost a little more
[26:33 - 26:36]
but it's a necessity a vital necessity.
[26:36 - 26:41]
So it's now we are really witnessing Rice against
[26:41 - 26:45]
time. It is a race between the striking officers which is
[26:45 - 26:50]
uncontrolled pollution generated by increasing population and increasing
[26:50 - 26:55]
investigation on one side and on the other side. Science Marine
[26:55 - 27:00]
Sciences progressing and warning and finding ways to
[27:00 - 27:05]
protect us. Now which is going to win. I am unable to say at the moment because you see
[27:05 - 27:10]
a sharp place. And then of course being in a police state I hope.
[27:10 - 27:15]
That science at least. With time. But it will be in our escape I assure
[27:15 - 27:19]
you. What is at stake is the survival of
[27:19 - 27:24]
mankind. As long as people who do not understand this then this you would be in
[27:24 - 27:25]
danger.
[27:25 - 27:39]
With Captain costal doctor north of Cal Tech and Congressman
[27:39 - 27:44]
Bob Wilson of San Diego took part in this program about pollution. Another in
[27:44 - 27:48]
the series titled down to the sea. Produced by public radio
[27:48 - 27:53]
station KQED SFM at San Diego State College. These programs were
[27:53 - 27:58]
written and prepared for broadcast by your host Tom McManus with the assistance of Ken
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Kramer. Music where the series is arranged and performed by Sam Hinton
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and a special poetic and narrative passages are read by Cliff Kirk production of
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down to the sea was made possible in part by a grant from the Corporation for
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Public Broadcasting.
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This is the national educational radio network.
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